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I rolled my eyes at some of your hyperbole (I wouldn't be caught dead making the effete complaint that cutting the grass is "labor intensive," for example), but you have a point. You might like some of the west side neighborhoods in Chicago with homes built below street level and a tiny strip of lawn where trees can grow, so you get a shaded street without any lawn maintenance or anything. Look up these blocks on Street View: 1700 block of North Honore, 1900 block of North Winchester, 1700 block of West Pierce.
As for driveways, Chicago's well known to be an alley city, with very, very few driveways all the way out into the inner suburbs.
Know there aren't a lot of driveways in Chicago, I was simply responding to the poster who said driveways and lawn are more attractive.
Haha agree that I was a bit hyperbolic in my disdain for driveways and lawn, although I think my assessment that lawns are labor intensive is pretty spot on. I don't mean it's hard work. But it has to be maintained basically weekly to maintain it's appearance.
I think both cities are evenly matched with it's urban landscape. Coming from the east coast, I can admit that I am a bit biased because of the whole rowhouse equates to urbanity debate. This doesn't take anything away from Chicago because it is one hell of a monster. Same goes for LA. Until you see it from the air, you really cant appreciate its urban landscape.
Hmmmm! Maybe it is because, most people don't define how urban a city is by it's skyline or lack there of. Chicago's skyline is amazing but peel a few layers back and you will see a city that is very urban in it's densest areas (Northside) and very suburban looking in areas on the southside. I have a hard time putting Chicago ahead of Philly because across the vast landscape that is Chicagoland, there are huge areas (in the city limits) that look like the burbs featuring strip malls, surface parking lots, fields. etc. Philly's rowhouses are also more urban looking than bungaloos and flats with driveways. If you give Chicago a high score for it's skyline, you have to take away points for it's residential layout because Philly kills Chicago on that level.
Philly may have more row houses but Chicago blows it away with far more residential highrises for urban living. As for stripmalls, surface parking lots etc. just go to one of the burbs like the King of Prussia. There are some near downtown Philly as a matter in fact.
Historical proof how close Philly is to NYC and its importance
In the mid 1960s the NBA had a territorial draft in which a team had the first round rights to a player who played college ball within 90 miles of the city. At the time Philadelphia had lost the old Warriors and Syracuse wanted to move to Philadelphia. Problem was Bill Bradley was playing at Princeton which was only about 43 miles from Philadelphia but about 45 from NY, The Kncks would not agree to let the team to move to Philly uness they gave the Knocks the rights to Bradley. They did and became the 76ers. On such things the fate of sports empires rise and fall.
Just thought I would throw that in since this thread seems to be more about the importance of the closeness of Philadelphia and New York than anything else.
As for me the proximity of New York (where I happen to be living now, in exile as I like to put it) is more of a curse than a blessing and deprives Philadelphia of its rightful place in the consciousness of the country.
You're only showing the best side of Philly while not showing the other denser side of Chicago which makes these photos inconclusive.
If you're going to show one part of Philly then you might as well expose one of the open area strip malls about 1 mile from downtown. No suburban characteristics in the city of Philly?? First, look in your own backyard.
Let me know when you want me to post more suburban like development links on urban philly. Let's expose it all. I have to head to Mass (Boston) tonight from PA but when I get back I will upload the dense urban photos of Chicago you failed to show. Keep in mind I plan on being in the Philly area again (to take photos of what you won't show) so becareful what you claim about the city.
As for me the proximity of New York (where I happen to be living now, in exile as I like to put it) is more of a curse than a blessing and deprives Philadelphia of its rightful place in the consciousness of the country.
I never even knew that people thought of Philly as being completely dominated and overshadowed by NYC until I started going on City-Data. It was pretty interesting for me to discover that. It's possible that this is just a belief that C-D posters (who are more concerned with city/urban matters than the average person) have. Then again, I might just have a positively biased opinion of Philly since I grew up in its suburbs.
I haven't read much of this thread, but since we're talking about location location location, let me put in my 2 cents: If that Amtrak plan for HSR ends up getting built, Philly's commutershed will be GIGANTIC. NYC --> Philly in 37 minutes, and DC --> Philly in under an hour will be a huge boon for the city and could fundamentally shift its place in the American consciousness, as the poster I quoted put it.
Of course you choose a pic for Philly that shows solid residential, while you use a pic for Chicago that centers on a freeway, and which doesnt even look like a completely residential area anyways. How surprising, rainrock comparing things in a skewed fashion that favors Philly. We've NEVER seen that before.
Philly does NOT "kill" Chicago for residential hoods in terms of layout/cohesiveness/urbanity/etc, I don't know what you guys are smoking. Here are some better Chicago pics to compare to that pic of Philly:
All sizes | View of the Flat Iron Arts Building from the Coyote Tower | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dhilowitz/5266790849/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | View from plane: downtown Chicago | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/47748104@N00/492919842/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Chicago Neighborhoods and Skyline | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/antre/550604079/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | My Neighborhood - Chicago IL | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/autograt/364931829/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Lake View, Uptown | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/yochicago1/5149702977/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | University of Chicago, from the air | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/yochicago1/5149584735/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Get out My Way! | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ifmuth/2701863676/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | United Center | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ghosstrider/4429712818/sizes/o/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | Looking northwest from the IBM Building - 330 N Wabash Ave | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/yochicago1/2291825462/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
All sizes | I'm in the Chicago Skyline! | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/withans/604622208/sizes/z/in/photostream/ - broken link)
Oh, and that pic of Chicago you used, that centered on the freeway, that makes things look relatively un-dense? this is what the rest of the area around that section of freeway looks like:
All sizes | Urban Density | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhythmandcode/3681065956/sizes/l/in/photostream/ - broken link)
In other words, nice try with the selective photos. Philly has freeways in/near the CBD too anyways. Maybe we should post photos of them, and then use those photos as evidence that Philly's residential areas suck in comparison to Chicago's?
Of course Chicago's residential areas don't "kill" Philly's either, but Chicago has the added advantage of being a much larger city...so it obviously has WAY more residential areas, much of which is at least as dense as anything you'll find in Philly, and some of which is more dense than anything you'll find in philly.
Outside of Center City and Fairmount, are there any other neighborhoods in Philly with similar elegant old-world streetscapes? Don't mean this as a dig, just curious for my personal knowledge.
PS. The pics are beautiful.
To me, the neighborhoods of Society Hill, Washington Square West, Rittenhouse Square and Fitler Square are most "old world," although there are pockets of Queen Village and Old City that feel the same:
Chicago gets more points for "livability" because it DOES have bungalows w/yards and some flats/apts with driveways, which is far more aesthetically-pleasing than row house neighborhoods..
The poster is clearly entitled to his or her opinion of which city is more livable. I doubt they know the city well, however, Philly has its share of neighborhoods with single family homes, including Mt Airy, Chestnut Hill and East Falls (where Arlen Spector and Ed Rendell live).
Last edited by Pine to Vine; 12-07-2011 at 05:58 PM..
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Historical proof how close Philly is to NYC and its importance
