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LA and Mexico City both have huge congestion, pollution, and water issues. As far as air pollution goes, LA is a step up from Mexico City, but both have gotten much better from how it was in the past. As far as congestion goes, LA is pretty screwed as even if it gets all of its visionary plan going, it's still the US and it's still a pretty bare bones solution--not that I'm against it, just that even if built out completely as envisioned it's really minuscule for such a large city. It might be fine if a significant chunk of people gave up car ownership and unsupervised self-driving cars became common. Water resources are going to continue to be a problem for the both of them with water pollution being Mexico City's issue and simply too much demand (as well as legally contentious supply) for LA being the issues. LA is basically a gigantic drain on resources due to its fairly unsustainable development, but it's changing--it's not going to be an overnight miracle though, and it will continue to be so for a good long time to come. It really is depressing to think of what LA was and could have been and how symbolic it is of American consumer waste (fitting that it also has Hollywood), but things are changing albeit slowly. Meanwhile, Mexico City which is located in a far less affluent country has made a concerted effort to combat its environmental issues. It's also legalized same-sex marriage, to boot, while wonderfully progressive California has done what?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-06-2012 at 09:43 AM..
LA and Mexico City both have huge congestion, pollution, and water issues. As far as air pollution goes, LA is a step up from Mexico City, but both have gotten much better from how it was in the past. As far as congestion goes, LA is pretty screwed as even if it gets all of its visionary plan going, it's still the US and it's still a pretty bare bones solution--not that I'm against it, just that even if built out completely as envisioned it's really minuscule for such a large city. It might be fine if a significant chunk of people gave up car ownership and unsupervised self-driving cars became common. Water resources are going to continue to be a problem for the both of them with water pollution being Mexico City's issue and simply too much demand (as well as legally contentious supply) for LA being the issues. LA is basically a gigantic drain on resources due to its fairly unsustainable development, but it's changing--it's not going to be an overnight miracle though, and it will continue to be so for a good long time to come. It really is depressing to think of what LA was and could have been and how symbolic it is of American consumer waste (fitting that it also has Hollywood), but things are changing albeit slowly. Meanwhile, Mexico City which is located in a far less affluent country has made a concerted effort to combat its environmental issues. It's also legalized same-sex marriage, to boot, while wonderfully progressive California has done what?
Right now the system in LA is considered "bare bones" - 30/10 would double the current system (remember, the Chatsworth Extension is only Measure R project to be completed so far) and provide coverage to just about every part of Los Angeles. There are gaps for sure but calling it 'bare-bones' is selling it way short.
The biggest problem area of LA for congestion, the Westside, will have the Purple Line to VA Hospital, Expo Line to Downtown Santa Monica and the Sepulveda / 405 line running north and south to connect the two. There will be congestion yes and it will always be bad (transit rarely fixes traffic), but at least there are some pretty solid alternatives.
Additionally I don't think you are correct with the speed of change here - I am astounded by how quickly things turn around in LA once the city puts its mind to it. Like I said before, LA is very dynamic and has absolutely no problem burying its past (for better or for worst).
The W Hotel has already been built so much of that is already developed, the parking lot to the north (the lot stradles Vista del Mar) both sides of that are phase 1 of a huge project, phase 2 is that huge parking lot to the right of Hollywood / Vine. Just south of that is another mega-project (Columbia Square), which is just to the north of the under-construction Emerson College campus which is across the street from the Old Spaghetti Factory tower (both on Sunset). These all should be finished by about 2015 - in 10 years Hollywood and Vine is going to go from what you see in the streetview (parking lot city) to being almost completely built-up.
And that is just one small area of Hollywood, La Brea is equally blowing up and neither can hold a candle to downtown LA which has completely transformed itself in 10 years (and unbelievably can still get so much more awesome). I think it is the critical mass of change in all areas of the city which lead to such sweeping change.
Right now the system in LA is considered "bare bones" - 30/10 would double the current system (remember, the Chatsworth Extension is only Measure R project to be completed so far) and provide coverage to just about every part of Los Angeles. There are gaps for sure but calling it 'bare-bones' is selling it way short.
The biggest problem area of LA for congestion, the Westside, will have the Purple Line to VA Hospital, Expo Line to Downtown Santa Monica and the Sepulveda / 405 line running north and south to connect the two. There will be congestion yes and it will always be bad (transit rarely fixes traffic), but at least there are some pretty solid alternatives.
Additionally I don't think you are correct with the speed of change here - I am astounded by how quickly things turn around in LA once the city puts its mind to it. Like I said before, LA is very dynamic and has absolutely no problem burying its past (for better or for worst).
The W Hotel has already been built so much of that is already developed, the parking lot to the north (the lot stradles Vista del Mar) both sides of that are phase 1 of a huge project, phase 2 is that huge parking lot to the right of Hollywood / Vine. Just south of that is another mega-project (Columbia Square), which is just to the north of the under-construction Emerson College campus which is across the street from the Old Spaghetti Factory tower (both on Sunset). These all should be finished by about 2015 - in 10 years Hollywood and Vine is going to go from what you see in the streetview (parking lot city) to being almost completely built-up.
And that is just one small area of Hollywood, La Brea is equally blowing up and neither can hold a candle to downtown LA which has completely transformed itself in 10 years (and unbelievably can still get so much more awesome). I think it is the critical mass of change in all areas of the city which lead to such sweeping change.
Yes, I know about 30/10 and America Fast Forward--I'm saying that even though it would be an immense improvement over what's currently in place and I am completely in favor of it, it's still a rather small system for a city of Los Angeles's size and wealth.
I'm astounded, but I'm astounded because things generally move really slowly in the states and dense urban development isn't that common. It's great what's happening, but it's really a game of catching up to other large global cities of the developed world rather than setting itself above them.
Yes, I know about 30/10 and America Fast Forward--I'm saying that even though it would be an immense improvement over what's currently in place and I am completely in favor of it, it's still a rather small system for a city of Los Angeles's size and wealth.
I'm astounded, but I'm astounded because things generally move really slowly in the states and dense urban development isn't that common. It's great what's happening, but it's really a game of catching up to other large global cities of the developed world rather than setting itself above them.
Yeah I don't disagree with this statement.
I actually was pretty sure Measure J (aka 30/10) was going to be voted down in November, but with gas skyrocketing out here I wouldn't be surprised if the Measure just won a whole gaggle of supporters. The average gallon of gas in LA is 4.69 with the highest station in Long Beach charging 6.65 Thank god I don't drive.
I actually was pretty sure Measure J (aka 30/10) was going to be voted down in November, but with gas skyrocketing out here I wouldn't be surprised if the Measure just won a whole gaggle of supporters. The average gallon of gas in LA is 4.69 with the highest station in Long Beach charging 6.65 Thank god I don't drive.
He uses Hollywood as criteria for it surpassing Chicago for culture. Theres MUCH more to culture than just a industry used as a medium. Chicago has produced many more businessmen, politicians, artists, musicians, lawyers, sports figures, etc. to provide an influence at large. LA stands on Hollywood. How many global organizations, embassies and thinktanks does LA have in comparison to Chicago? Theres much more than just Hollywood.
Urban footprint? LA over Chicago? That has to be a joke. Chicago is one of the best designed and most sustainable cities in the world, let alone country.
Cuisine variety is certainly not in LA's favor either. Chicago has everything LA does and more. Michelin rated restaurants? The only cities comparable to Chicago are NYC and SF.
That's an awful lot of Chicago for an LA vs. Mexico City thread....
It's a positive. LA is a melting pot of the world, that brings with it the cuisine and culture from around the world. You're living in a dominantly black and white city, so you have no idea what cosmopolitanism even is if it hit you in the face since there are only sprinkles of diversity where you are. Immigration hubs test the desirability, fame, allure, and industry of their host cities, folks only immigrate to cities they know of.
Do you expect folks from South Korea to be moving to Grand Rapids, Michigan? LOL
You know exactly what that means. LA has hosted several world renown sporting events, the Olympics twice. It's been a host of a slew of foreign leaders coming there to bask in the city's influential culture. It's the export gate for American culture to the world, in foreign relations, folks see and relate to what comes out of LA and its one of the largest culture importers in the world too.
Not even. Chicago has no answer for Bangladeshi, Thai, Japanese, Korean, etc the way LA does. LA actually has specific neighborhoods for them all "little Bangladesh" and has more ethnic enclaves than any other city in this hemisphere. There is no "debatable", Chicago simply does not compete.
Then why did you say Chicago surpasses LA at it? LOL
LA has a bigger hand and list of achievements than does Chicago.
Well those same folks need to start citing LA too. Lots of hidden gems in LA. This is a toss up, like munch said the loop takes urban highrises to another level but after that, its LA domination.
Stop this ridiculous tirade of "unsustainability". I only hear midwesterners use that term and then a posse of northeasters come chugging along "agreeing" to it without any facets of facts. If you're talking about the water situation, it will be resolved as desalination has become much less expensive now and LA has the country's second largest population. You're a mad man with a foaming mouth if you think the US is going to abandon LA on water for small towns in the UP of Michigan.
Big city life is everything that is a megacity. Chicago will get there but its not at the level of LA. No where close to the hectic nature of LA or NYC.
LA would be the same LA. It's the mindset that matters not the population, although the population has led LA to believe its one of the largest cities in the world, which it is, the mindset has evolved to match it.
I cannot speak for hypothetical situations since they have not occurred but to me LA would always be a fascinating place whether it was half the size or double the size. If I had to pick, I would want LA to be double instead of half. That eccentricity and adrenaline rush that comes from BIG CITIES to me is what I strive for.
I don't get enough of that in from SF Bay Area, I do from LA.
Youre really debating urban footprint in regards to LA OVER Chicago?
HOW??????????????????
Chicago has Asian cuisine, and much much more. Sure, the quality isnt as good, but thats the only leg up LA has. Hispanic food (where Chicago performs quite impressively actually, and IMO closing the gap). The more the Hispanic population booms, its only going to get better as far as quality goes. Everything else, American, Italian, German, Polish, Greek, Lebanese, Puerto Rican, Mexican, Pakistani, Indian, Korean, Viet, Thai, Chinese, Japanese, French, Ehtiopian, Scandinavian, Russian, Bosnian, Czech, Portuguese, BBQ, Tex Mex, Cajun, etc.
City life domination? Auto-centrism and sprawl is domination?
That's an awful lot of Chicago for an LA vs. Mexico City thread....
I didnt expect to see it either, but I wanted to chime in.
Blame whoever started it.
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Theres MUCH more to culture than just a industry used as a medium. Chicago has produced many more businessmen, politicians, artists, musicians, lawyers, sports figures, etc. to provide an influence at large. LA stands on Hollywood. How many global organizations, embassies and thinktanks does LA have in comparison to Chicago? Theres much more than just Hollywood. 
