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One thing on the tourism argument: Canada only has 34 million people and the US has 300 million+ . Americans are known to travel within their own country quite a bit. It makes sense that most US cities will have bigger tourism numbers compared to any Canadian city for this reason alone. The US south has well over 100 million people (almost 3 times the population of Canada) so it makes sense that Atlanta will post bigger "tourist" numbers than TO. Toronto for instance, lies in an area with about 15-20 million people. Although this makes up 55-60% of Canada's entire population, it's extremely small compared to the US.
So the whole tourism argument is kind of weighed towards US cities since Americans prop up their own cities since there are so many Americans that travel to their own states. I bet if a survey was done, over 80% of Americans would be able to say they have visited another major US city but probably only 10-15% could say they visited Canada.
Atlanta should not embarass itself by going against Toronto
I lived in Toronto for a bit and I probably hate Toronto more than anyone who has ever lived there. But even I have to admit it's probably better than Atlanta.
Downtown Toronto, along with the rest of the city and metro area including the suburbs blow Atlanta away. The only thing I would give Atlanta an edge over is cost of living and topography. Toronto is ridiculous with the cost of living. Housing is very expensive and so is the sales tax in Ontario. Metro Atlanta is in the Piedmont with nice rolling hills and the mountains aren't too far away. Toronto is pretty flat, but they have Lake Ontario and the mountains and ski resorts southeast of Buffalo are within a days drive.
I have driven in both cities and traffic is horrible in both, although I think the 401 and Don Valley Parkway are a little worse than I-75/85 or 285 Perimeter, but not by a lot. Toronto beats Atlanta in transit. The city has streetcars, the subway, and commuter rail that serves the outlying areas. Toronto's suburban areas are also better planned around bus stations and are on smaller lots. I also like that the new suburban homes are mostly brick there too instead of that cheap vinyl they have in a lot of suburban areas in the south.
One thing on the tourism argument: Canada only has 34 million people and the US has 300 million+ . Americans are known to travel within their own country quite a bit. It makes sense that most US cities will have bigger tourism numbers compared to any Canadian city for this reason alone. The US south has well over 100 million people (almost 3 times the population of Canada) so it makes sense that Atlanta will post bigger "tourist" numbers than TO. Toronto for instance, lies in an area with about 15-20 million people. Although this makes up 55-60% of Canada's entire population, it's extremely small compared to the US.
So the whole tourism argument is kind of weighed towards US cities since Americans prop up their own cities since there are so many Americans that travel to their own states. I bet if a survey was done, over 80% of Americans would be able to say they have visited another major US city but probably only 10-15% could say they visited Canada.
Im not sure I buy that reasoning.As noted previously,almost 60% of international travel to Canada is from the U.S.Toronto is accessible by many U.S. destinations by car from Detroit and Chicago.Border cites are very busy.
The closest metropolitan area to Atlanta is Charlotte.There are no cities even half the size of Atlanta for 10hrs by car.Dallas and D.C .
Toronto is close to a much more populated area and easily accessible by car in both countries.In fact,its apart of Quebec-Windsor Corridor.
Quebec City
Thats the most populated region in all of Canada.
Atlanta is one of the top convention centers in the U.S.It is the 4th city with the most F-500 headquarters in the U.S. and even though people hate to hear it for whatever reason,it is a major draw for people of African decent as well as those who are not but would like to experience the civil rights movement that and even Civil War that were major events in American and world history.
Im saying there are many things that people both know or did not know about Atlanta where it is worthy of the amount of people that come for whatever reason.International and Domestic.
Im not sure I buy that reasoning.As noted previously,almost 60% of international travel to Canada is from the U.S.Toronto is accessible by many U.S. destinations by car from Detroit and Chicago.Border cites are very busy.
The closest metropolitan area to Atlanta is Charlotte.There are no cities even half the size of Atlanta for 10hrs by car.Dallas and D.C .
Toronto is close to a much more populated area and easily accessible by car in both countries.In fact,its apart of Quebec-Windsor Corridor.
Quebec City
Thats the most populated region in all of Canada.
Atlanta is one of the top convention centers in the U.S.It is the 4th city with the most F-500 headquarters in the U.S. and even though people hate to hear it for whatever reason,it is a major draw for people of African decent as well as those who are not but would like to experience the civil rights movement that and even Civil War that were major events in American and world history.
Im saying there are many things that people both know or did not know about Atlanta where it is worthy of the amount of people that come for whatever reason.International and Domestic.
I live in Atlanta and have been coming here all my life and even I am amazed by how many foreignors are attracted to the city.
As for all the Atlanta bashing, I understand that Toronto is more urban than Atlanta as it should be. But that doesn't make Atlanta an absolute h*ll hole. Atlanta is loaded with positive traits that it doesn't get credit for and always smashed for supposedly being sprawled out. The fact is the whole huge region around Atlanta has not been developed as intensely in the past as it could have been. Now companies and industries are making up for that by developing all these once rural counties the same way they have developed the huge area surrounding Chicago or New York City, Philly etc. Great effort and success is being made in developing the inner city as well but can you curse Atlanta and it's people if a lot of companies would rather locate their facilities and jobs in the outer burbs instead of in town. It's not like Atlanta officials have the power to say " hey! You can't locate your factory in Canton it has to be in South Atlanta!" Even if the State tried that most likely the companies would just say "bye" and locate in another state.
In other other words. Lighten up already. We're trying but we aint there yet already.
I live in Atlanta and have been coming here all my life and even I am amazed by how many foreignors are attracted to the city.
As for all the Atlanta bashing, I understand that Toronto is more urban than Atlanta as it should be. But that doesn't make Atlanta an absolute h*ll hole. Atlanta is loaded with positive traits that it doesn't get credit for and always smashed for supposedly being sprawled out. The fact is the whole huge region around Atlanta has not been developed as intensely in the past as it could have been. Now companies and industries are making up for that by developing all these once rural counties the same way they have developed the huge area surrounding Chicago or New York City, Philly etc. Great effort and success is being made in developing the inner city as well but can you curse Atlanta and it's people if a lot of companies would rather locate their facilities and jobs in the outer burbs instead of in town. It's not like Atlanta officials have the power to say " hey! You can't locate your factory in Canton it has to be in South Atlanta!" Even if the State tried that most likely the companies would just say "bye" and locate in another state.
In other other words. Lighten up already. We're trying but we aint there yet already.
^Thank you That's what everyone here is saying. No one is saying Atlanta is horrible/terrible or whatever. What everyone is stating is Atlanta's downtown is not on the level of Toronto's. Yet that other guy and his twin are getting mad and bring up things like "history" and "how many visitors to the Metro Atlanta" etc. which have nothing to do with what the thread title states.
It's like a Lamborghini Gallardo owner telling a BMW 5 series owner that his car is faster than the BMW when comparing horsepower/speed of the two vehicles. Now of course this doesn't mean a BMW is garbage in anyway, but the BMW owner gets mad and then proceeds to bring up "5 series sales", and "how many car commercials" which have nothing to do with the initial convo.
^Thank you That's what everyone here is saying. No one is saying Atlanta is horrible/terrible or whatever. What everyone is stating is Atlanta's downtown is not on the level of Toronto's. Yet that other guy and his twin are getting mad and bring up things like "history" and "how many visitors to the Metro Atlanta" etc. which have nothing to do with what the thread title states.
It's like a Lamborghini Gallardo owner telling a BMW 5 series owner that his car is faster than the BMW when comparing horsepower/speed of the two vehicles. Now of course this doesn't mean a BMW is garbage in anyway, but the BMW owner gets mad and then proceeds to bring up "5 series sales", and "how many car commercials" which have nothing to do with the initial convo.
I can understand people saying that but what has provoked so many responses from people like "that other guy and his twin" is that alot of people as usual are coming on here and not only saying Atlanta is not up to snuff with Toronto but taking it way further and saying things like Atlanta is one big suburb or the only good thing about it is low cost of living or it's just a bunch of conservative kooks. None of which is true.
Atlanta is a very progressive and vibrant city with alot of people doing alot to improve it's urban qualities.
One thing that can be said as mentioned before is Atlanta is one of very few major cities on this Earth where there is a black middle and upper class somewhat comparable to what you see among whites in most major American cities. That shouldn't be a big deal in this day and age but unfortunately it is. And this is atleast one area where Atlanta excels beyond Toronto which experiences a lack of diversity and upward mobility among blacks the lacks of which you won't see in Atlanta Why is Toronto’s city centre 82 per cent white?
I can understand people saying that but what has provoked so many responses from people like "that other guy and his twin" is that alot of people as usual are coming on here and not only saying Atlanta is not up to snuff with Toronto but taking it way further and saying things like Atlanta is one big suburb or the only good thing about it is low cost of living or it's just a bunch of conservative kooks. None of which is true.
Atlanta is a very progressive and vibrant city with alot of people doing alot to improve it's urban qualities.
One thing that can be said as mentioned before is Atlanta is one of very few major cities on this Earth where there is a black middle and upper class somewhat comparable to what you see among whites in most major American cities. That shouldn't be a big deal in this day and age but unfortunately it is. And this is atleast one area where Atlanta excels beyond Toronto which experiences a lack of diversity and upward mobility among blacks the lacks of which you won't see in Atlanta Why is Toronto’s city centre 82 per cent white?
What are you talking about. Toronto is probably the most diverse city in North America and Atlanta isn't even close to being diverse. Toronto also barely any crime to speak of and Atlanta which is full of it, but that's because a large % of the diversity is asian, indian, pakistani, etc.
I can understand people saying that but what has provoked so many responses from people like "that other guy and his twin" is that alot of people as usual are coming on here and not only saying Atlanta is not up to snuff with Toronto but taking it way further and saying things like Atlanta is one big suburb or the only good thing about it is low cost of living or it's just a bunch of conservative kooks. None of which is true.
Atlanta is a very progressive and vibrant city with alot of people doing alot to improve it's urban qualities.
One thing that can be said as mentioned before is Atlanta is one of very few major cities on this Earth where there is a black middle and upper class somewhat comparable to what you see among whites in most major American cities. That shouldn't be a big deal in this day and age but unfortunately it is. And this is atleast one area where Atlanta excels beyond Toronto which experiences a lack of diversity and upward mobility among blacks the lacks of which you won't see in Atlanta Why is Toronto’s city centre 82 per cent white?
As far as I never said anything about ATL not being progressive, or vibrant. I don't recall anyone else saying other, but I can only speak for myself. Yes ATL has a black middle class and high class which is higher in terms of a percentage than many other cities including Toronto, Los Angeles and probably even New York City. That's definitely one area where the city exceeds others. But this thread is much much more than just race in the downtown area.
And Toronto being "82% white" downtown has many contributing factors. Downtown is a high-priced residential area compared to other parts of the city. Many immigrants from all over the world that come here.... a majority of them are not immigrating to the city with a lot of money, therefore they set up shop outside the downtown area. As the link you provided says, 66% of people living outside of the downtown are visible minorities. There's a lot of other contributing factors about these numbers which relate to things such as: urban planning, what was built and where, history, who is immigrating, etc and so on that I can get into but again I would be typing forever and it has very little to do with the OP's initial question.
As the original post to this thread says...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta_Born
For Toronto consider the entire downtown (Bathurst to Don River, Lake Ontario to Dupont/Davenport/Church/Bloor East streets) PLUS the Yonge Street corridor up to say Lawrence Avenue.
For Atlanta, consider downtown PLUS midtown PLUS the "core" of Buckhead (anything close to Peachtree Street up to about "Peachtree Dunwoody Road NE". Hell, you can throw in Atlantic Station if you want even though it's across the freeway.
These areas are similar in many ways. They both include a "traditional downtown" at the south end, connected to a "midtown/uptown" area further north by a subway line (Atlanta also has a freeway connecting these areas, Toronto does not). The both include the regions most noteable areas for office towers, nightlife, "urban shopping/dining", and highrise living. The Yonge Street corridor north of downtown Toronto is much wealthier than the region on average, and I suspect Atlanta's corridor also has a much higher average income than the city as a whole.
Compare:
-cityscape/architecture
-"urban living"
-shopping
-dining
-nightlife
-safety
-pedestrian friendliness (which includes continuity of pedestrian friendliness along the corridor)
-which street pattern you prefer (Toronto's strict north-south/east-west grid with shorter blocks vs. Atlanta's meandering streets with huge blocks)
-transit (public transit, bike lanes/paths, ease of catching a cab)
-anything else you find relevant
^The OP was referring to this when comparing the two "greater downtowns".
I don't think or recall anyone disputing Atlanta as a city where there are number successful African Americans are doing their thing whether it's downtown, other parts of the city or in Metro Atlanta. But what the topic of the thread is far beyond the race related things and deals with much more in the greater downtown area of both cities. Public transportation, dining etc. as the list says is what people are focusing on. That's why people are saying ATL does not compare to Toronto when you look at everything from a grand perspective. Right when that happens, then others that are "for" ATL in this debate then commence to introduce things that have nothing to do with the initial topic and go beyond what is being discussed.
Go to the eaton center/yonge and dundas square. The vast majority of people you see will be non-white and half the whites that you actually will see are foreign born anyway. Atlanta is not diverse at all it's a mostly black with a small amount of whites and a few mexicans here in certain suburbs.
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