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Baltimore has much more of an urban feel, but it is in really bad shape, without the amenities to draw tourists in like New Orleans, etc. Down the road, DC will be equally urbanized, but with a much newer feel. And by down the road, I mean like 20 years.
Baltimore has much more of an urban feel, but it is in really bad shape, without the amenities to draw tourists in like New Orleans, etc. Down the road, DC will be equally urbanized, but with a much newer feel. And by down the road, I mean like 20 years.
I don't think it'll ever get to Baltimore level because it doesn't have the same built environment. Wider streets and stuff.
I describe Baltimore as having a "flavor of the month" transit system.
In the late 1970s, when the Feds willingly ponied up for heavy rail metros, Baltimore built its one subway line (opened in 1983). It had others on the drawing boards, but one of them got killed along with the freeway in whose median it would run.
In the 1980s, when the Feds blanched at the cost of building subways but were willing to throw money at light rail systems, Baltimore got its one light rail line. It should have run in a subway downtown, but that would have cost too much.
Now, when the Feds are insisting everyone build whatever it is they want to build on the cheap, Baltimore is planning on substituting BRT-lite for what would have been its second subway line, then its second light rail line.
Interesting. I never thought of it that way. Whatever Baltimore builds, it deserves much more than it currently has. And with its structural density and concentration of low-income residents (more likely to not own cars), I think ridership would be great on whatever form of transit the city builds.
I don't think it'll ever get to Baltimore level because it doesn't have the same built environment. Wider streets and stuff.
Seriously, I may be biased, but I do think that the DC of 2019 is more urban than Baltimore for a variety of reasons. Even built environment wise its much more built up despite slightly wider streets. And FWIW, the built environments are roughly the same, both cities are dominated by row homes (B'more being without setbacks), albeit DC is more so an apartment city. So, what exactly about Baltimore makes it a more urban city? DC is denser, more vibrant, has higher transportation usage, has lower car ownership, etc.
Seriously, I may be biased, but I do think that the DC of 2019 is more urban than Baltimore for a variety of reasons. Even built environment wise its much more built up despite slightly wider streets. And FWIW, the built environments are roughly the same, both cities are dominated by row homes (B'more being without setbacks), albeit DC is more so an apartment city. So, what exactly about Baltimore makes it a more urban city? DC is denser, more vibrant, has higher transportation usage, has lower car ownership, etc.
I meant like if all things were equal in employment, incomes, public transportation access, cafe/bar/restaurant clusters, etc. Like if Baltimore didn't have the blocks upon blocks throughout large swaths of the city that are boarded up or vacant, if it had a higher concentration of bars and restaurants throughout the city because incomes were higher and more people partook in such activities, if it had a similar subway system, etc.
In that situation, I would just find Baltimore to be the more urban feeling I think. No matter what happens in DC, a street scene like this is going to be far less common in DC than in Baltimore.
I'm also very aware of DC being pretty strong in the rowhome category, with the added mid-rise apartment corridors that Baltimore is missing ATM. However, the wider streets and many of the rowhomes having deeper setbacks make it feel slightly less urban IMO. And as for the apartment corridors, I think construction of those will come along similarly when Baltimore's gentrification is ready for them. There are plenty areas of the city that could be built on for similar looks.
Tl;dr. As of today, DC is the more urban city because it's more built out, has less gaps in urbanity, has better public transit, has more stuff to walk to, etc. In the future if Baltimore ever lives up to its potential, I think its built environment would put it ahead. Though I guess it could be subjective as someone may prefer the apartment corridors with wide streets over rowhome neighborhoods with narrow streets. I prefer the latter.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDFan
Baltimore has much more of an urban feel, but it is in really bad shape, without the amenities to draw tourists in like New Orleans, etc. Down the road, DC will be equally urbanized, but with a much newer feel. And by down the road, I mean like 20 years.
In 20 years DC may have 300,000 more people than Baltimore, at the current rate of growth, it has 100k more now. This does not affect street width or building structure, but DC has more broad urbanity across the city with different nodes than Baltimore, TODAY.
Baltimore will probably always feel more warm and "neighborhoody" in the residential areas, but DC does have some neighborhoods that are tight knit in certain areas. The majority row home nature of Baltimore City creates a different style of street scape than the one in DC, this is the part that will most likely never change. DC will continue to add multi level apartment/condo buildings well outside it's downtown core, Baltimore hopefully will do this too in areas like Port Covington, but as a whole city won't ever catch DC on mixed use developments outside the downtown.
Last edited by the resident09; 04-22-2019 at 09:42 AM..
Comparing “urbanity” is difficult because there are no consensus definitions, but based on commonly mentioned measures, I would definitely go with DC.
Baltimore has a subway (one of the smallest of any major cities) that 75% of the city doesn’t even know exists. Much of downtown Baltimore closes up very early. I’ll never forget when I first moved to Baltimore for grad school (mid 2000s) and went to a Burger King in the heart of downtown Baltimore. Got there a couple minutes after 9pm and they were closed. Granted that was many years ago, but that is an example of the small town vibe of Baltimore.
DC has much more foot traffic, much larger metro/train presence, much larger “downtown” footprint, and much more lively and cosmopolitan. I actually think DC feels denser than Baltimore. The way large Pratt Street runs the heart of Baltimore (separating the harbor from the rest of downtown) makes Baltimore feel a lot less dense.
Even without the tall buildings, DC still feels more dense, and has a more impressive skyline than Baltimore. Baltimore has some of the smallest, most dull buildings of any major city. It is one of the only major cities not to have a 600 foot building (for reference, even OKC and Charlotte have 600+ ft buildings.
Based on commonly used metrics, DC wins this pretty easily imo.
This forum's been around a while now, so it's interesting when these topics made years ago pop back up. In 2012 when this topic was first made, there was a decent argument for Baltimore. At that time, the populations of the two areas were very close with DC possibly having a smaller population in a somewhat smaller area. A lot of arguments for both cities from back then are still relevant such as Baltimore's narrower streets or DC's large job base and much more extensive transit system. In 2019, what's changed since 2012 is that a lot of somewhat emptier parts of DC have infilled with mid-rises quite a bit and the population count has surged while redevelopment in Baltimore hasn't been as extensive and the population has actually dropped a bit. Additionally, DC's subway system has a new line, which while not an extension within DC itself, adds to the frequency of one of DC's transit corridors (it also got a short streetcar line). It's a hard argument to make today in 2019 that Baltimore is actually more urban than DC and much more so than it was in 2012.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKmachine
Im from DC originally but I cant help but to feel Baltimore is more urban than DC.
For one, Baltimore looks and feels northeastern to me. The rowh.ouses look just like Philly.
Two, Baltimore is an older city with taller buildings. DC is old too but it has a lot of new buildings and to be frank, DC feels southern across the board. Urban yes but southern.
DC may be faster paced but Baltimore has that NE grit and attitude that you will not find in DC.
Baltimore has blocks that look like somewhere in Brooklyn, DC doesnt.
So for those who have been to both cities which one feels more urban?
The OP from 2012.
In response to this I'll say we have two factors here. Structural urbanity and "big city feel" or vibrancy.
Regarding structural urbanity, not much can or will be done about the street widths of much of Washington that has wider streets in a number of areas vs Baltimore. Building heights mean nothing in this discussion to me, Washington has height limits, and actually has way more buildings over 10 stories in it's city proper than Baltimore does. As another poster stated, Baltimore's skyline for a city its size and age (without height limits) is a bit underwhelming compared to Cleveland, Charlotte etc. Although slowly new buildings are going up around Baltimore harbor (I really would like to see Port Covington get done). The cities aren't really built similarly at all. Baltimore is closer to a smaller Philly, DC is more like a smaller Paris with long wide avenues and an urban core that radiates outwards from downtown for miles.
On the vibrancy point, it's obvious that these two don't even belong in the same sentence with one another. DC is so far ahead it would take decades for Baltimore to become equally vibrant.
Last edited by the resident09; 04-22-2019 at 06:54 PM..
I thought it would be fun to put together some stats relating to the topic at hand:
Population (2018):
DC - 702,455
Baltimore - 602,495
Population Density (2018):
DC - 11,508 ppsm
Baltimore -7,444 ppsm
Number of High-rises (12+ stories or 115+ ft):
DC - 477
Baltimore - 213
Housing Units - Occupied and Vacant (2017):
DC - 314,805
Baltimore - 294,496
Building Permits (2017):
DC - 6,037
Baltimore - 428
Restaurants, Bars, and Coffee Shops (2019):
DC - 3,237
Baltimore - 2,230
DC - There are an average of 10 restaurants, bars, and coffee shops in 5 minutes walk.
Baltimore - There are an average of 4 restaurants, bars, and coffee shops in 5 minutes walk.
Number of grade-separated rail/subway stations:
DC - 91 stations, 117 miles
Baltimore - 14 stations, 15 miles
Office space inventory:
DC - 110 million square feet
Baltimore - 22 million square feet
Number of hotel rooms:
DC - 36,120 (196 hotels)
Baltimore - 12,405 (75 hotels)
Last edited by revitalizer; 04-22-2019 at 08:11 PM..
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