Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The thread title doesn't imply that KCMO is a Southern city. Had it asked, "Any other city in the south with a more walkable core than KC?", then I could see the issue. It's simply asking if there's a Southern city out that that has a more walkable core than Kansas City's.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,094,873 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Instigator
So I was looking at the wikipedia pic of KCMO, and it looked as if it was more urban and walkable in the core than anything I've seen in the south for the exception of NOLA? I'm not an expert on KC but it seems like it has kept most of its pre WW2 core buildings intact.
Where do people get the notion that the guy is saying that KC is in the South???? I don't get it. He's just saying that KC's core looks more walkable and denser than any city in the South. What's so hard to understand about that??????
Any city could also do that.....it doesn't change my stance one bit. It's not terrible, but it's surprising to me that "only" 26,000 inhabitants live within the core 4 square miles of downtown ATL, that's all.
It sounds like a lot of what is going on in Atlanta is going on in Minneapolis, with not only downtown but the neighboring U of MN and nearby "sub-neighborhoods" just across the river and such (e.g. "Nordeast"/St. Anthony). There is a current vision for the city that by 2025 "downtown" (unsure how that is defined) would have 70K-75K inhabitants -- quite a lofty goal considering the current population is maybe 1/2 that! Given the seemingly-incredible scale of the renaissance going on there, I'd imagine Atlanta's would have to be even more impressive, given its popularity!
This is actually a common trend for many cities, even though it varies a bit.
Most financial districts, convention districts, hotel districts, government districts, and universities don't have alot of permanent residents. They also take up alot of space pushing out (pricing out) potential residential space. Many live in the surrounding neighborhoods. Our actual CBD Core edged by the freeway, the Grady Curve known locally, only has 13,000 residents. Of course the whole CBD is probably in the ball park of 2 sq mile.
Most of the core of Downtown Atlanta are all those things. There are not many residential spaces.
To make matters worse for Atlanta. We were the first city to have housing projects. We were also the first city to completely demolish them. When they were built, they were placed in all of the core neighborhoods surrounding downtown. The original premise was you had to provide the poor good cheap access to jobs. The problem is it made people not want to live in those neighborhoods, so most of the urban residents live a neighborhood or two away.... like Midtown, Virginia-Highland, Buckhead, Lindbergh, etc... Today the trend is continuing with most growth occurring along the Beltline, which wraps around the core rather in the core. The non-financial district core of our downtown are primarily those spaces affected from the era of housing projects.
So when we demolished the housing projects... we also significantly decreased the population of the neighborhoods. It will take some time to grow back and make the areas completely desirable again. They are rebuilding again at the periphery, but it is often at lower-middle income worker housing...so it doesn't inject a bunch of money into the area (which causes more restaurants and stores, etc..).
Since, Atlanta is very much a multi-core city, compared to other cities, many Yuppies (and their money) have gone to developments in other cores. So we have 4-5 'alright' cores, but not one extremely built 'great' core. This is why so many talk about Midtown, Buckhead, Vinings, Perimeter Center...even though they are completely different in character.
Minneapolis' downtown/CBD isn't all the different. Minneapolis Neighborhoods | Walk Score I like to hover over each neighborhood and see population totals. Minneapolis' core downtown (financial district) neighborhood only has 5,700 people. So they have the financial district effect most cities have. Now that neighborhood is 1 sq mi. The downtown plan that exists now is probably around 5 sq mi. and has close to Atlanta's downtown population, which is impressive given that it is a smaller city. However, keep in mind... smaller city = less office space, less convention space, etc... so there is more residential space too.
I'll enjoy reading up on their urban development plans. I often like these smaller major metros, like Denver and Minneapolis, because the attitude of the city is so Downtown-centric. It reminds me of Atlanta when we were smaller.
One word of warning.... Another poster mentioned Buckhead. Buckhead is a large section of our city composed of many different neighborhoods. It is the rich area. It has some of the city's densest living areas and it has some of the city's least dense living areas (over a large area). This detail gets confusing the way many people talk about it.
It is where we have those large multi-millon dollar Southern mansion/estates. The area has Peachtree Rd, which is lined with highrises and condo low-rises. It has a neighborhood called Lindbergh full of multi-family housing. It has a neighborhood called the Buckhead Village and it has its own central business district. To a large extent, the denser parts are new redevelopments still building what that part of the city will become. The problem with Buckhead on these forums, when people mention it they are usually talking about the dense core -or- the very expensive mansion area...but not both. Ironically, it is those low-density area that make Atlanta have dense cores, but it is also the same thing that pushed so much suburban growth far out of the city.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,994,819 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus
Wait, so when talking about "downtown Atlanta", we are not including "Midtown"? Downtown ALONE has 4 square miles of space (4 sq. miles is quite a large area for a CBD unless you are Chicago or NYC!)? If so, what is "Midtown" in area? What about this "Bucktown"??
Oh, yeah, no. Downtown and Midtown are separate districts. The demarcation point (if you are going to use google maps) is North Avenue (the red line in the image below).
Midtown has about 30,000 residents of it's own, is the location of Georgia Tech (21,000 students), another 100,000 workers (it's the second CBD), and is about 3 square miles...but most of that is Georgia Tech. The portion of the district to east of the Highway which only includes the business district and residential neighborhoods is a hair over a square mile.
While it appears from the air they are one district (and in some respects they are since the districts use Peachtree street as they main boulevard and are connected by rail), the two areas are seen as being separate from each other for cultural and physical reasons. On the physical end, because of the convergence of I-75 and i-85, all streets between the two districts crossover bridges. While the distance is small over these viaducts (less than a city block), it presents a view of crossing over in to two different areas on the ground. Secondy, what is Downtown today is basically the entirity of the city of Atlanta prior to the 20th century. Development was started in Midtown in 1890s, and over the last 20 years has redesigned from almost the ground up in the area surrounding Peachtree street.
No, Midtown is separate from downtown Atlanta, and BuckHEAD is yet another business district/job center within the city limits.
You criticism of downtown Atlanta's area is just silly...4 sq.mi. is not "quite large" and comparable to other downtowns like Philadelphia (3 sq.mi.). Sure some downtowns are only 1 sq.mi., but that obviously doesn't work for Atlanta.
I don't really know the area of Midtown Atlanta, but I'm sure you would have a problem with it as well.
Philly's downtown is possibly 4th largest in the country....ATL, not so much. 4 sq miles is very large, yes......sorry for bringing you back down to Earth.
You mean to say that the financial districts or CBDs of most cities have a strong residential component? I don't think so...I would say just the opposite - most CBDs are business district first and residential second.
There is no (let me repeat, NO) CBD in the country that is comprised of only businesess and no residential within four (let me repeat, FOUR) square miles, implying that business dominates that landscape and no other use can take part more than a 6K ppsm ratio. If I was a tween I'd say "utter fail", but I'm not, so I'll just say I think you are wrong sir.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
