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LOL, no sorry buddy SF blows away Philly with street level vibrancy, go to Mexico city there's little shacks of houses in that city but would you really say it doesn't feel like a big city because of it?
LOL, no sorry buddy but it doesn't.
Suburban bungalow houses and shacks built for the poor are completely different things. Way to reach, and to think I had been respectful to you in my previous post. What a waste.
SF probably feels suburban in the western parts of the city, but even then, it's still pretty dense and walkable, but you do know you're miles away from the core.
I'd judge it by many things, without putting an emphasis on any one thing. I think the biggest thing that displays how "big" and urban a city is, is the neighborhoods outside of the downtown area. It's obvious what feels like a city and what doesn't. Even Philadelphia unfortunately has plenty of breaks in its urban footprint, but it doesn't feel the least bit suburban until you get to the Northeast, with the exception of some of the smaller streets in West/Northwest/Southwest Philly. If you take the main streets all the way through the city though, it is a continuous city feel. Anybody who has taken the Market St El before can attest to this.
Where in SF feels suburban? What are you talking about? SFs urban fabric is way more consistently urban than Philly's.
Where in SF feels suburban? What are you talking about? SFs urban fabric is way more consistently urban than Philly's.
while both are urban I am not sure how this is rational, using a term like "way" just screams of lunacy - at best equal TBH way is an overstatment either way when comparing these two in this regard
If anything Philly has the larger continuously urban footprint, it would be the core where SF would have a slight edge.
And outside the core I dont see much difference - honestly the miles and miles (yes a longer stretch than SF) of rowhomes probably has the greater coninuity to be honest. And the rowhome continuity extends with continuity outside the city limits to the west.
and I really dont find much of SF to be surbaurban at all - if you look hard enough you can cherry pick an image for just about anywhere but I would not consider SF to be suburban. Philly actually has two areas extreme NE and NW that have a street car suburb feel - but these are also way further out than anything inside the city limits distance wise relative to SF
while both are urban I am not sure how this is rational, using a term like "way" just screams of lunacy - at best equal TBH way is an overstatment either way when comparing these two in this regard
If anything Philly has the larger continuously urban footprint, it would be the core where SF would have a slight edge.
And outside the core I dont see much difference - honestly the miles and miles (yes a longer stretch than SF) of rowhomes probably has the greater coninuity to be honest. And the rowhome continuity extends with continuity outside the city limits to the west.
Agreed that using the word "way" was going too far (as was your usage of the word "lunacy"), but in my opinion SF's urban fabric is second only to NYC. You can walk for miles in any direction from downtown and be in very bustling, structurally dense, and vibrant neighborhoods packed with rowhouses and/or mid/high-rise buildings nearly the whole time. Philly is definitely larger and has excellent urban bones, but in its current form I'd argue it's not quite as urban-feeling as SF. There are far more vacant or underdeveloped parcels and the street-level vibrancy isn't quite to the same level. In terms of feeling like a "big city", I think SF wins here, although it's definitely close.
SFs urban fabric is way more consistently urban than Philly's.
Don't make me laugh.
Like I said, travel Market St sometime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly
and I really dont find much of SF to be surbaurban at all - if you look hard enough you can cherry pick an image for just about anywhere but I would not consider SF to be suburban. Philly actually has two areas extreme NE and NW that have a street car suburb feel - but these are also way further out than anything inside the city limits distance wise relative to SF
The difference is those aren't suburban. They're still lined with rowhousing and corner commercial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orzo
SF's urban fabric is second only to NYC, in my opinion. You can walk for miles in any direction from downtown and be in very bustling, structurally dense, and vibrant neighborhoods packed rowhouses and/or mid/high-rise buildings nearly the whole time. Philly is definitely larger and has excellent urban bones, but in its current form I'd argue it's not quite as urban-feeling as SF. There are far more vacant or underdeveloped parcels and the street-level vibrancy isn't quite to the same level. In terms of feeling like a "big city", I think SF wins here, although it's definitely close.
The problem is that your opinion is nothing but homerism.
Plenty of older cities are much more urban than SF.
Street level vibrancy is not what makes a place urban or not.
SF's urban fabric is second only to NYC, in my opinion. You can walk for miles in any direction from downtown and be in very bustling, structurally dense, and vibrant neighborhoods packed rowhouses and/or mid/high-rise buildings nearly the whole time. Philly is definitely larger and has excellent urban bones, but in its current form I'd argue it's not quite as urban-feeling as SF. There are far more vacant or underdeveloped parcels and the street-level vibrancy isn't quite to the same level. In terms of feeling like a "big city", I think SF wins here, although it's definitely close.
maybe on the vibrancy (though some would say N Philly has vibrancy, just not the kind I personally like) but on urban developed footprint, actually no Philly is larger.
A question for many. How many of you have really traversed philly end to end. Broad street alone is ten miles end to end (and absolutely no unbroken urbanity) - larger than any single direction in SF proper. As another said take the el from Frankford to Upper darby (Believe is 14 miles). Drive the Blvd (Honestly the Blvd goes longer through urban development than SF is wide or long and never even goes through any parts visitors venture near). I really think most people dont realize just how large the urban footprint is for Philadelphia.
Heading from S Philly to the NE there is unbroken rowhome after rowhome for nearly 14 miles, east to west its about 9 miles.
I have traveled all over SF. To me the urban foot print of SF would fit from say 50th street in West Philly to the river (east/west) and from Snyder to Lehigh (North/South) - that actually leaves miles heading north and west.
Honestly how many people have spent time in Olney, Strawberrry Mansion, Overbrook, Logan, Franford, Cobbs Creek, Pennsport, Grays Ferry etc.
In many ways the conitnuity on footprint of developed urbanity to me only feels surpassed by places like BK or Queens as the extension (so much larger scale) In many ways the developed continuty in this regard feels at times larger (in the compact form) than does even Chicago
I really think many people have never ventured further north than Temple (if that) or west than UCity or south of Washington (or South street for that matter)
And again I am not saying better/worse or anything but I really dont think many here have actually traveled the full distance or realize just how large that footprint is. Today its less populated than when it held 2+ million people but there is just miles and miles of developed urbanity - just no denying that
From a city standpoint I think Montreal and Philly feel very similar in size. Not just population but land area as well. From a metro standpoint, Philly and San Francisco both feel significantly larger than Montreal.
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