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Economy you say? Chicago's unemployment rate actually rose in the last 12 months. What jobs are you speaking of marothisu? It looks to me like Chicago has barely created any since the recession and is still down from its 2007 peak.
I knew you'd bring that up. The thing is that you can't see the forest for the trees. This is just like population numbers. There is more to it than just that number. You have to look at other indicators as well. The number of white collar jobs in the city are rising, while the number of true blue collar are decreasing. This is what we meant by more lower class being replaced by middle/upper middle class.
I appreciate you bringing this up, but as someone who's actually in on hiring people in town, who also gets about a message and/or phone call from companies looking to hire me because they have openings.... I know what I'm talking about with this.
So if you don't care if my opinion has changed why did you subject me to looking through Chicago in your google maps link..regardless... i'll hold your credibility on Toronto as much as you hold mine on Chicago and we can call it a day... for me, i'm using the population densities of the urban cores for both cities to guide my opinions... I don't know what you're using - google maps I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
I don't care whether your opinion is changed or not. I'm just wondering how many times you've been to Chicago and how much you experienced. Yes, it actually does matter if we're talking about anything. I can ask the same question about LA too. How many times have you been to LA and for how long? It's a matter of credibility and trust. I don't doubt your opinions at all, but there is a level of credibility associated with experience.
'seems' much bigger... yes who needs nerd statistics and trends when we have what 'seems' to be bigger lol as a measuring stick for all time.
Now, Chicago has a large CBD that is bigger than Toronto's - but don't worry - we're constructing 8X more highrises and they are progressively getting taller - so it'll just be a matter of time and if you've been to Toronto in the past 2 years as many times as you say - you would be recognizing the explosive growth. I give it ten years for the core of Toronto - perhaps less to have the same built form size... Having said that - Toronto's growth is mainly residential in nature in the core (though commercial growth is now starting to take off) - not the same for Chicago so when I refer to growth i'm speaking of people growth more than scraper growth. This isn't to say Chicago's core isn't growing but just not to the degree Toronto's is hence why we surpassed the city in city proper population with the DT core of Toronto leading the charge. This didn't happen overnight..... Indeed, is the growth Chicago experiencing mainly in its core or more in the surrounding infinite environs? Again speaking of people growth... This is the point i'm trying to make and have been trying to all along with respect to growth in the cores and Toronto's core is bigger than Chicago's in terms of population, density and is rapidly constructing in built form as well - though Chicago has a huge heritage and it is big shoes to fill in that regard - Toronto is valiantly making the charge for a number of reasons - none of which has to do with beating Chicago in anything btw.. lol...sooooo
Quote:
Originally Posted by prelude91
That is nerd statistic talk, Im referring more to the 20-25 sq mile core area "Chicago's Manhattan", not the entire metro area. Ive lived in Chicago for 25 years, and have been to Toronto literally dozens of times in the past 2 years; the 20-25 sq mi core of Chicago seems much bigger than that of Toronto's.
Again, who was talking about north?? Did you read my post before you declared that you mostly disagree with it? Here it is:
Prelude91 basically said the same thing in different words and your reply to him was "yes exactly". You gotta be kidding me...
And I am sorry, but when a city maintains a high degree of cohesiveness in only one out of five directions from downtown it can hardly be called highly cohesive.
I disagree. The areas you are speaking of are cohesive. Where is the cohesiveness lacking?
Yes it did surpass Chicago in city proper population - and do the trends show in the future a continued narrow lead or increasing the gap more and more so that one can't say the difference is narrow anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
Yes, Toronto very narrowly passed Chicago with population.
I'm familiar with Chicago and consider the area cohesive IMO. And remember we are speaking about Toronto, LA and Chicago here. I think everyone knows LA is a joke. This leaves Chicago and Toronto for cohesiveness.
I'm familiar with Chicago and consider the area cohesive IMO. And remember we are speaking about Toronto, LA and Chicago here. I think everyone knows LA is a joke. This leaves Chicago and Toronto for cohesiveness.
What is the most urban of three in your opinion?
Most cohesive from downtown and most urban are too different things. Toronto is the most cohesive. Chicago is the most urban by a healthy margin.
So if you don't care if my opinion has changed why did you subject me to looking through Chicago in your google maps link..regardless... i'll hold your credibility on Toronto as much as you hold mine on Chicago and we can call it a day... for me, i'm using the population densities of the urban cores for both cities to guide my opinions... I don't know what you're using - google maps I guess.
I always expect you to hold my lack of expertise on Toronto the same as yours on Chicago. Why do you think I don't even talk about Toronto much? Because I visited there twice. I could come on here and claim this and that from what I saw, but as a world traveler, I know it was barely anything - just like how you barely saw anything in Chicago which is evidenced by what you say. However, the difference is that I don't even talk about Toronto much because I have a sense of humility that being in that city a few times for a handful of days means absolutely nothing when it comes to your's (and others') knowledge. It's the same for any city in the world. I would never debate someone who lives in X city when I only experienced that city for a handful of days myself. At best, it's a frivolous thing to do.
Ok so I walk through Chicago 5 times this year and do so thoroughly and with an open mind - will this lead me to the conclusion than that based on my observations at any given time that the city is more densely populated in its core or has a greater population when statistics clearly show this is not the case? I'm not claiming to be an expert on anecdotal opinions.. i'm talking about population and density statistics and growth trends - things far more objective than fluffy opinions..
Clearly - Chicago has a larger CBD in terms of built form.. the gap is closing and again - Toronto is clearly building more than Chicago in terms of highrises in practically all height ranges and is in absolute terms is absolutely the skyscraper construction capital of the western world right now and that is also projected to continue for awhile... not my opinion or observations either!
Indeed projections by 2041 show that not only will Toronto's city proper be larger than Chicago's but that the Golden horseshoe will be a unified urban agglomeration of 14.5 million people and will exceed that of Chicagoland. Ontario already exceeds Illinois in population and that gap will be widened in Ontario's favour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marothisu
I always expect you to hold my lack of expertise on Toronto the same as yours on Chicago. Why do you think I don't even talk about Toronto much? Because I visited there twice. I could come on here and claim this and that from what I saw, but as a world traveler, I know it was barely anything - just like how you barely saw anything in Chicago which is evidenced by what you say. However, the difference is that I don't even talk about Toronto much because I have a sense of humility that being in that city a few times for a handful of days means absolutely nothing when it comes to your's (and others') knowledge. It's the same for any city in the world.
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