which would feel more "like home"/familiar to a southern Ontarian ...twin cities MN or Buffalo NY area? (live, state)

[scottyr]

Between the Buffalo Ny metro area and the Twin cities MN metro area, which would feel more like "home" and less culture-shock-ish for someone from Southern Ontario Canada (Toronto, Hamilton, Barrie, Guelph or nearby areas)

I'm referring to politics, racial and religious demographics, local customs, attitudes, pasttimes/activities, pace of life, quality of life and government services, crime, local dialect as well as weather, archetecture, terrain/scenery, urban experience...anything really

[choosing78]

Minnesota. Similar attitudes, lower crime (than buffalo) huge hockey culture (buffalos hockey fans are a little fair weathered and in to mostly just nhl). Weather is similar. Actually I think both get more snow. Both cities have lots of water around them but Buffalos lakes are often polluted and closed to use. Although buffalo is closer in distance mn is def more similar. Heck I am in Colorado and it's more similar than buffalo.

[ckhthankgod]

I think if you are looking at both areas, I think the Buffalo area would fit. Hockey is big in the Buffalo area and many Canadians from Southern Ontario go to games there as well. I believe that some go to Bills games too. Hamilton, out of the places mentioned, seems to resemble Buffalo in terms of the blue collar vibe too. You can still watch your Ti-Cats or Argos if you want to too.

Given that the Twin Cities are bigger, I'd say it has a faster pace of life, but the makeup of the people in the area may be more in line with Toronto.

Either way, I think you would be fine.

[scottyr]

thanks, i see where both of you are coming from. I think Buffalo, despite being so close to southern Ontario, is a bigger culture shocker. The city, like many American cities and few Canadian cities, has a high homicide rate, major racial segregation, a huge black population, a fair sized Spanish-speaking population, high residential abandonment and the people, while not Bible-beltish, are more outspoken, opinionated, loud and more likely to be conservative, practising Christian and anti-socialist than the typical Ontarian. The accent is very nasal and sounds nothing like the Canadian accent. At least Minnesota has some of the "oots" and "aboots".

The only thing Canadian about Buffalo are the radio and TV waves that seep across the border, the availability of Canadian beer and the popularity of hockey.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by scottyr

thanks, i see where both of you are coming from. I think Buffalo, despite being so close to southern Ontario, is a bigger culture shocker. The city, like many American cities and few Canadian cities, has a high homicide rate, major racial segregation, a huge black population, a fair sized Spanish-speaking population, high residential abandonment and the people, while not Bible-beltish, are more outspoken, opinionated, loud and more likely to be conservative, practising Christian and anti-socialist than the typical Ontarian. The accent is very nasal and sounds nothing like the Canadian accent. At least Minnesota has some of the "oots" and "aboots".

The only thing Canadian about Buffalo are the radio and TV waves that seep across the border, the availability of Canadian beer and the popularity of hockey.

I wouldn't call Buffalo conservative and some people in Upstate NY have Canadian roots. There is a good sized Mexican population in St. Paul actually. There are integrated areas of the Buffalo metro and areas of the Twin Cities where an ethnic/racial group predominates.

Actually, Southern Ontario, in relative terms does have cities/towns with higher and/or long time Black populations that many other Canadian areas. Windsor, Chatham, Dresden, Amherstburg(has a Black mayor), Hamilton and London are some that come to mind.

Buffalo's homicides are generally in certain parts of the city and the Twin Cities has had higher crime rates at times in recent years. Outside of certain urban neighborhoods, the Buffalo area is probably one of the safest metros of its size. While Toronto isn't bad by US standards, certain areas like Jane & Finch, Rexdale and Regent Park, among some others, have or have had relatively bad reputations in regards to crime.

[scottyr]

you're right, Buffalo is pretty liberal for US standards, but i don't think it approaches southern Ontario standards. Lots of old school Catholics and people with old bigoted beliefs that are hard to shake. Also Ontario is far more comfortable with socialism than western New York and Ontarians have been content with universal healthcare et al for decades.

True, many Ontario cities have substantial black populations, but they don't ever approach the 20-40 percent of the city's entire population that you see in upstate NY cities. Aslo, most blacks in Southern Ontario have a Jamaican or Somalian accent/culture and even Blacks who have been in Canada since the 1800s do not have the "southern" cultural tendencies of upstate NY Blacks (ie-eating collard greens and fried chicken, speaking in southern-tinged dialects, saying "Doe" instead of "Door", etc)

Buffalos homicides might be contained mostly to the east and west side, but those are still legitimite parts of the city and thus they give Buffalo a much higher murder rate than Toronto, Hamilton ,etc... Yes Toronto has bad areas too (really, every city has good and bad areas) but Toronto's bad areas tend to be alot more racially diverse than Buffalo's and really, not all that bad compared not only to Upstate Ny, but to pretty much anywhere in the US (unless we're talking about Billings, Mt or Bismarck ND)

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by scottyr

you're right, Buffalo is pretty liberal for US standards, but i don't think it approaches southern Ontario standards. Lots of old school Catholics and people with old bigoted beliefs that are hard to shake. Also Ontario is far more comfortable with socialism than western New York and Ontarians have been content with universal healthcare et al for decades.

True, many Ontario cities have substantial black populations, but they don't ever approach the 20-40 percent of the city's entire population that you see in upstate NY cities. Aslo, most blacks in Southern Ontario have a Jamaican or Somalian accent/culture and even Blacks who have been in Canada since the 1800s do not have the "southern" cultural tendencies of upstate NY Blacks (ie-eating collard greens and fried chicken, speaking in southern-tinged dialects, saying "Doe" instead of "Door", etc)

Buffalos homicides might be contained mostly to the east and west side, but those are still legitimite parts of the city and thus they give Buffalo a much higher murder rate than Toronto, Hamilton ,etc... Yes Toronto has bad areas too (really, every city has good and bad areas) but Toronto's bad areas tend to be alot more racially diverse than Buffalo's and really, not all that bad compared not only to Upstate Ny, but to pretty much anywhere in the US (unless we're talking about Billings, Mt or Bismarck ND)

You are kidding about the dialect, right? There are Jamaicans and Somalians, along with other Black immigrants in Buffalo and Upstate NY cities. Buffalo's West Side is very diverse/mixed actually, as are parts of the East Side.

A lot of people may be Catholic, but in name only and while there may be some bigots, I don't know if Southern Ontario gets off scott free in that regard and may people in Buffalo could care less.

I'm not sure about the socialist angle, but considering the aspect of unions and some governmental aspects in NY, it may be close enough.

Also, North Buffalo and eastern half of the West Side are fine areas of the city that would appeal to you the most anyway.

[Diane12345]

I'm from toronto and live in the states - I would say MN is more Canadian-like compared to Buffalo. I think Buffalo is a huge culture shock for numerous reasons. I think the Canadian stereotype of Americans would be more validated in Buffalo, whereas you might be more surprised (pleasantly) by the values and attitudes in MN.