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Orlando... then St Pete ( which I hear is about to boom), then Tampa, then easily the worst is Jacksonville which apparently had amazing bones but now looks like the Southeast US version of Detroit.
hahaha it's really not that bad. The vacancy rate is high for a downtown but it's nothing on the level of Detroit. The downtowns are similar in the arch of their demise as some old footage of Jax makes it look like an old NYC, which is obviously very far from the case today. What sucks for Jacksonville isn't the vacancy rate, which looks to slowly be turning the tide and is always correctable...no what sucks is all the history that was lost. I'd imagine at least 50 buildings from the early 1900s were razed in favor of surface parking lots or developments that fell through. From LaVilla, which was the historic black part of downtown, to Brooklyn, which is really adjacent to downtown to the west but many people think it's part of downtown, to the famous Shipyards on the eastside of downtown, all these had blocks and blocks of buildings completely wiped out. Then of course there's the central part of downtown with seemingly one surface lot on every block that used to be a building.
Cameron Kuhn, who was a major factor in Orlando's DT renaissance, came to Jax and bought up 5 or so buildings with major redevelopment plans. Then he got arrested and went bankrupt just as the real estate market went belly-up. C'est la vie.
The high office vacancy is still the main issue for downtown Jacksonville. We have the tallest building out of all these cities but obviously the smallest population. Our Southside area (around the I95 and JTB highways) has a higher concentration of employees than Downtown. It's a struggle for the office towers in downtown to lure companies from cheaper rents and cheaper parking out in the suburban office campuses. Things are slowly improving though...and much better than Detroit
Orlando hands down has the best downtown out of the four cities listed. Not to mention, theres is TONS of new development happening right now in Downtown Orlando, especially with the new Dr. Phillips Performing Arts Center opening this fall.
I think downtown Jacksonville probably has the best bones of all four, but it's pretty dead. I'm always amazed at how cities that have less to work with have more vibrant cores than Jacksonville.
Uhh not quite. Orlando has so much going for it's downtown.
Here's a quick list:
Several major residential projects
A growing local food scene
A brand new performing arts center coming soon
Mls soccer stadium about to break ground
Commuter rail now connects downtown better to the metro
Expanding free BRT circulator connecting DT to adjacent bungalow neighborhoods like Thornton Park, etc.
The new Amway Center for NBA, concerts, etc.
Excellent small music venues, theaters...
Movie theater
...and an urban park that none of the other cities can match in Lake Eola.
It should also be noted that downtown south or SODO is pretty connected to DT and brings retail more into the picture, and neighborhoods like uptown are also considered the core and are growing in density immensely.
While St. Pete has a lovely downtown, it doesn't compare in overall offerings and also doesn't feel like the center of a thriving metro the way Orlando does.
I voted Orlando because I think it is easily the most well rounded and the closest to being "vibrant". St Pete is really the only competition now that it has become a nightlife /retail destination but doesn't seem to offer much as a job/business center. Orlando in a landslide.
Its got to be Orlando. Never been to St. Pete or Jacksonville downtown's. Was in Tampa not too long ago and while I enjoyed my time there downtown was alright.
This is a tricky thread. DT ORL is more of a focal point because there are no surrounding cities to pull any venues away from it. Tampa Bay is a cluster of several cities. Everything's spread out (not a fair comparison).
This is a tricky thread. DT ORL is more of a focal point because there are no surrounding cities to pull any venues away from it. Tampa Bay is a cluster of several cities. Everything's spread out (not a fair comparison).
If anything it's amazing how vibrant DT Orlando is despite Universal and Disney having epic retail, restaurant, and entertainment complexes a short drive away.
Then factor in a big outwardly pull from just Winter Park and other big suburbs that have strong retail and dining options, and its a wonder anyone goes to DT Orlando at all.
Actually I'm really glad about this, it proves the potential strength of the demand for urbanism in central Florida.
I'm not saying your points weren't true about Tampa Bay, but the difference is Orlando bettered its downtown to prevent this from happening.
If anything it's amazing how vibrant DT Orlando is despite Universal and Disney having epic retail, restaurant, and entertainment complexes a short drive away.
Then factor in a big outwardly pull from just Winter Park and other big suburbs that have strong retail and dining options, and its a wonder anyone goes to DT Orlando at all.
Actually I'm really glad about this, it proves the potential strength of the demand for urbanism in central Florida.
I'm not saying your points weren't true about Tampa Bay, but the difference is Orlando bettered its downtown to prevent this from happening.
Difference between Orlando and Tampa is that none of the other areas in Orlando are close to the beach. When you have Clearwater, Dunedin, St. Pete, and others with amenities and entertainment right on the water, it makes it tough for a city like Tampa to pull in customers from smaller but better located areas. Plus Disney doesn't really have anything going on late at night except for Downtown Disney (which IMO is kinda weak), City Walk clubs lack the grungy-ness that downtown Orlando has, and the retail scene downtown isn't present at all (but it also isn't need it IMO). The other locations around Orlando also don't have Lake Eola, which is beautifully done and seems to have a festival going on at once every 2 weeks. Orlando was also smart by having its biggest venue, the Amway Center, right next to downtown. Plus the new Orlando City stadium is going to be right next to the Amway Center as well, effectively funneling sports fans right into the city. Raymond James Stadium is almost 5 miles away from the city. The Rays play in St. Pete. Only major sports group that plays in downtown Tampa is the Lightning, and we all know how weak hockey is in Florida.
I think Orlando put more work into making its downtown a place to live and have fun, while Tampa still hasn't reached that point yet.
DT Orlando has no competition attracting people; there's no where else to go except DT Disney as you said. In essence, St Pete and Tampa both compete to attract people (DT St Pete has done a better job but DT Tampa is coming alive lately). Add to this Clearwater Beach and the 25 miles of shore line in Pinellas and you see how venues/establishments/gathering areas are all spread out. Apples to oranges. Bradenton/Sarasota have their own focal points too. Now imagine if all 4-5 Tampa Bay downtowns where connected together? What would the options be? I'd say better than DT ORL.
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