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I don't think it's necessarily overblown. Nobody ever said you can't get authentic Chinese food in Manhattan, but your options are a lot more limited once you don't want Cantonese or Fujian food. You're right that there's more legit places for non Cantonese food in Manhattan that have opened in the last few years. Szechuan Mountain House on St. Marks is decently legit. Little Tong in East Village does decent Yunnan mixian. Zhen Wei Feng on Bowery does good stuff including individual Hot Pot. Congee Village nearby (been around for awhile) does good congee. My fiancee's favorite place in NYC to get food from her home region in China is on 14th near 6th. Le Sia in East Village does decent skewers. And there are other places that have opened that are not authentic at all or just not good at all (such as Funny BBQ). We ate at a new place in East Village last summer that was pretty nice inside, and my fiancee was kind of annoyed because they were serving a type of very common, cheap comfort food for $25 a plate. She was annoyed on the fact that it's basically something you'd get from the street without thinking about paying more than a few bucks for and they did nothing to this version in NYC to set it way apart. The flavor was good, but basically the entire restaurant was serving a bunch of street food more or less and getting ignorant people who don't know Chinese food to shell out the money. I think she said she knew of places in Chinatown in Manhattan doing the same food at same quality for like $4/plate.
With that being said though, Chinese right now will almost always choose to go to Flushing over Manhattan for authentic mainland Chinese food. My fiancee and her friends *always* go to Flushing when they want something authentic and good. The only time they meet in Manhattan is if it's after work and something semi convenient. Otherwise, it's almost never meeting up in Manhattan. We moved last month from Manhattan to Long Island City, and one of the biggest factors was the fact that we're near the 7 train and my fiancee can get to Flushing easier. She missed Flushing so much being in Manhattan that it was one of the biggest factors of relocation to LIC. She is part of a Chinese network on WeChat in NYC that always talks about new, awesome places opening in NYC. Sometimes they highlight new places in Manhattan, but usually they're highlighting Queens and Brooklyn when talking about new, authentic places.
Also, there is a delivery service through WeChat for Chinese people working in Manhattan that they can get food delivered from places in Flushing to their offices in Manhattan. My fiancee uses this as do a lot of the coworkers in her office, and some of the Chinese people in my office do too. That should tell you something - that people working in Manhattan are opting to have things delivered all the way from Flushing into Manhattan during work hours.
Now, things are opening and getting better for non Cantonese food in Manhattan, but Flushing is still expanding and stuff opening there all the time. Brooklyn Chinatown is large too and doesn't get talked about a lot because it's not as "easy" to get to. I will gladly welcome more authentic places in Manhattan opening and you're right, some more have opened there.
Also interestingly there is an site/app called Chowbus which is a startup based in Chicago that does only Asian food delivery. For a restaurant to get on their site/app, it needs to pass a blind taste test from someone who works for the company. They look for authenticity so if they don't think your food is authentic, you won't get on there. It's mostly Chinese food and in NYC the only place they are in is Manhattan (also in Chicago since that's where their HQ is, as well as Boston, Champaign Illinois, East Lansing Michigan, and Philadelphia). They just got $4M in funding and their revenue is up 300% YOY, and they're looking to expand to 15-20 new markets this year. Hopefully that means Queens and Brooklyn.
I didn't mean to say that Manhattan had as much variety as Queens, but it has way too much variety to write it off as inauthentic. Aside from the Manhattan Chinatown which many Chinese still live and hang out with, there are many new places opening up elsewhere in Manhattan like we've agreed on. I guess the East Village especially due to all the foodies and Chinese NYU students.
Do you think that there's some form of territorialism from Chinese immigrants (or 2nd gens who are very into the culture) who live in the greater Flushing area? I've seen a thread in the NYC forum about which Chinatown NYC Chinese prefer and it doesn't seem like they have a strong universal preference for Flushing based off of the anecdotes in there?
And how is Brooklyn Chinatown (there are 2-3 of them so I'm guessing you mean Sunset Park) further than Flushing? SP is closer to both North Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan than Flushing is.
I didn't mean to say that Manhattan had as much variety as Queens, but it has way too much variety to write it off as inauthentic. Aside from the Manhattan Chinatown which many Chinese still live and hang out with, there are many new places opening up elsewhere in Manhattan like we've agreed on. I guess the East Village especially due to all the foodies and Chinese NYU students.
Most of the Chinese who live in Chinatown in Manhattan are from Hong Kong or Guangdong, which is reflected in the Cuisine. I think if you go in some of the eastern parts then maybe you find some more from cities like Fuzhou. There's some non Cantonese places in Manhattan Chinatown but it's mostly dominated by Cantonese food. A lot of the Chinese people from mainland who are newer to NYC do not live in Chinatown if they're living in Manhattan. Chinatown in Manhattan does not look like China at all except for maybe Hong Kong. Someone coming from Shanghai would find Manhattan Chinatown pretty foreign looking. However, they'd find something like Flushing a lot more familiar. When my fiancee's parents (live in Shanghai now) visited NYC a few years ago, they were like "wtf is this?" about Manhattan Chinatown. They hated it and thought it was really crappy. They liked Flushing though.
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Do you think that there's some form of territorialism from Chinese immigrants (or 2nd gens who are very into the culture) who live in the greater Flushing area? I've seen a thread in the NYC forum about which Chinatown NYC Chinese prefer and it doesn't seem like they have a strong universal preference for Flushing based off of the anecdotes in there?
Are the people posting actually from China? Since my fiancee is from China and only been in the US for 5 years, and 99% of her friends are also from China and been here for that long, it's universal. Same as people in my office. I have yet to meet a person from mainland China in NYC who would pick the Chinese food in Manhattan over Flushing. I'm being literal in that - I cannot name one person from China who has told me this. Flushing is definitely better for Chinese food from mainland if you're looking for authenticity especially.
I mean, most Chinese people do not care what part of town a restaurant is in as long as it's good and authentic. They'll go far and wide for it, especially if it's some food they love and can't find in the city. My fiancee did her masters at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, which doesn't really have good Chinese food at all. She said they were so desperate that at least once a month, she and her friends would travel to a suburb of DC like 45 minutes away for one restaurant.
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And how is Brooklyn Chinatown (there are 2-3 of them so I'm guessing you mean Sunset Park) further than Flushing? SP is closer to both North Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan than Flushing is.
Sunset Park is the largest and main Chinatown, so that's what I was talking about. I was saying in terms of getting there from say Manhattan. I know there is one stop on 8th Avenue there and a few more a few avenues away, but it's still not the fastest to get to. Flushing at least has an express train. Sunset Park is kind of interesting - not talked about a lot but has some legit places too. 8th Avenue has some stores that weirdly make it look like a small town in China.
When it comes to Turkish cuisine I find Boston to be one of the better places in the US i have tried. Istanbul’lu in Somerville is the best Turkish restaurant I have tried outside of Turkey and Germany. I lived in Istanbul for over a year so I feel like I have some credibility when it comes to this.
If you haven’t been get over there ASAP, it’s about as authentic as it gets outside of Turkey.
Most of the Chinese who live in Chinatown in Manhattan are from Hong Kong or Guangdong, which is reflected in the Cuisine. I think if you go in some of the eastern parts then maybe you find some more from cities like Fuzhou. There's some non Cantonese places in Manhattan Chinatown but it's mostly dominated by Cantonese food. A lot of the Chinese people from mainland who are newer to NYC do not live in Chinatown if they're living in Manhattan. Chinatown in Manhattan does not look like China at all except for maybe Hong Kong. Someone coming from Shanghai would find Manhattan Chinatown pretty foreign looking. However, they'd find something like Flushing a lot more familiar. When my fiancee's parents (live in Shanghai now) visited NYC a few years ago, they were like "wtf is this?" about Manhattan Chinatown. They hated it and thought it was really crappy. They liked Flushing though.
Are the people posting actually from China? Since my fiancee is from China and only been in the US for 5 years, and 99% of her friends are also from China and been here for that long, it's universal. Same as people in my office. I have yet to meet a person from mainland China in NYC who would pick the Chinese food in Manhattan over Flushing. I'm being literal in that - I cannot name one person from China who has told me this. Flushing is definitely better for Chinese food from mainland if you're looking for authenticity especially.
I mean, most Chinese people do not care what part of town a restaurant is in as long as it's good and authentic. They'll go far and wide for it, especially if it's some food they love and can't find in the city. My fiancee did her masters at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, which doesn't really have good Chinese food at all. She said they were so desperate that at least once a month, she and her friends would travel to a suburb of DC like 45 minutes away for one restaurant.
Sunset Park is the largest and main Chinatown, so that's what I was talking about. I was saying in terms of getting there from say Manhattan. I know there is one stop on 8th Avenue there and a few more a few avenues away, but it's still not the fastest to get to. Flushing at least has an express train. Sunset Park is kind of interesting - not talked about a lot but has some legit places too. 8th Avenue has some stores that weirdly make it look like a small town in China.
There's a poster in the LES who is into Chinese culture and has a lot of Chinese friends. He said that hardly any Chinese in Manhattan that he knows (including the non traditionally Chinese parts) show a strong preference for Flushing.
I really don't see what's so great about Flushing from a visual persepctive, if anything I much prefer the way Manhattan Chinatown looks. And most Chinese cities are not fancy looking from what I've seen (I follow Food Ranger and he has videos all over China).
I doubt anywhere in NYC looks like anywhere in China, they're completely different countries with different histories. NYC is more like a European city (the prewar neighborhoods at least)
Bensonhurst is as Chinese heavy as Sunset Park according to the city's immigration statistics.
And isn't Flushing (if you include Murray Hill and Auburndale) too suburban overall to resemble any Chinese city?
There's a poster in the LES who is into Chinese culture and has a lot of Chinese friends. He said that hardly any Chinese in Manhattan that he knows (including the non traditionally Chinese parts) show a strong preference for Flushing.
They are probably not from China if they don't show a strong preference for Flushing. I mentioned it to my fiancee and she agreed and said they're probably bananas (a term used by people from China to describe Chinese-Americans who don't know much about their culture).
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I really don't see what's so great about Flushing from a visual persepctive, if anything I much prefer the way Manhattan Chinatown looks. And most Chinese cities are not fancy looking from what I've seen (I follow Food Ranger and he has videos all over China).
The draw to Flushing is more about the authenticity of the food, not the visual aspect. Though at street level it is set up similar to what you might find in some small cities. I've been to China multiple time - about 10 cities. The problem here is that what most Americans think China looks like nowadays is completely off from the reality. Maybe back before the 80s or 90s, but there's been a pretty big push by the Chinese government for a very long time to make things more comfortable and not look like crap. Some places like Hangzhou or Shanghai are nicer than others IMO. Very, very green and clean and nice. Not what most people think. The place I actually found looked similar to Manhattan's avenues was actually Shenyang in a district where my fiancee's grandparents live. It was kind of weird.. just kind of the high rise canyons, grid system in a way in this area, etc.
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I doubt anywhere in NYC looks like anywhere in China, they're completely different countries with different histories. NYC is more like a European city (the prewar neighborhoods at least)
..
And isn't Flushing (if you include Murray Hill and Auburndale) too suburban overall to resemble any Chinese city?
The way in which Flushing is set up at street level is more akin to a small city in China. Some of the newer buildings that have been built there too absolutely resemble what you'd see in China. I've been to China a few times - nearly 10 cities and in terms of that
Also, perhaps it would surprise you to find out that Shanghai was occupied by the French starting in 1849 and there are parts of the city that are completely European still, filled with 19th century European architecture built in the 19th century (https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b2&oe=5CB28BF6).
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Bensonhurst is as Chinese heavy as Sunset Park according to the city's immigration statistics.
Bensonhurst is newer for the Chinese thing, but there's a lot there too yes. I think it might have about the same as Sunset Park now but unsure. Wouldn't surprise me. I haven't been to Bensonhurst for almost 2 years. We were actually in Sunset Park today for food though.
They are probably not from China if they don't show a strong preference for Flushing. I mentioned it to my fiancee and she agreed and said they're probably bananas (a term used by people from China to describe Chinese-Americans who don't know much about their culture).
The draw to Flushing is more about the authenticity of the food, not the visual aspect. Though at street level it is set up similar to what you might find in some small cities. I've been to China multiple time - about 10 cities. The problem here is that what most Americans think China looks like nowadays is completely off from the reality. Maybe back before the 80s or 90s, but there's been a pretty big push by the Chinese government for a very long time to make things more comfortable and not look like crap. Some places like Hangzhou or Shanghai are nicer than others IMO. Very, very green and clean and nice. Not what most people think. The place I actually found looked similar to Manhattan's avenues was actually Shenyang in a district where my fiancee's grandparents live. It was kind of weird.. just kind of the high rise canyons, grid system in a way in this area, etc.
The way in which Flushing is set up at street level is more akin to a small city in China. Some of the newer buildings that have been built there too absolutely resemble what you'd see in China. I've been to China a few times - nearly 10 cities and in terms of that
Also, perhaps it would surprise you to find out that Shanghai was occupied by the French starting in 1849 and there are parts of the city that are completely European still, filled with 19th century European architecture built in the 19th century (https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b2&oe=5CB28BF6).
Bensonhurst is newer for the Chinese thing, but there's a lot there too yes. I think it might have about the same as Sunset Park now but unsure. Wouldn't surprise me. I haven't been to Bensonhurst for almost 2 years. We were actually in Sunset Park today for food though.
What exactly could be so different about the setup? I think that both are lined with stores.
I think he was talking about immigrants. I wish I could tag him.
I don't think my perception of China is dated, I just disagree that it's a utopia that looks like something from the Jetsons. Manhattan Chinatown contains very expensive real estate, so it's clearly not an undesirable area.
Bensonhurst actually is the most Chinese immigrant heavy neighborhood in the city according to that report but really there are are at least 4 neighborhoods citywide that are full fledged Chinatowns.
Halal Guys in NYC isn’t bad, it’s simply fast food. Chicken and Rice Guys is the Boston equivalent, though C&R is 5x better.. Different story for a different day.
Hahaha I would almost argue the opposite (though the Halal Guys outpost in Boston is not even close to as good as the one in NYC). I love C&R when I want to pig out (I drown it in white, a splash of red, and a few drops of mint), but it's not really authentic. It's a spin on NYC street meat. Halal guys is similar, but I think they do it better.
I agree with you that Boston's ME scene is average at best. We're inundated with Falafel and Schawarma places, but there's very little outside of that. One bright note is Istanbul'lu in Teele Square. It's a 3 minute walk from my place and I go there at least once or twice per month. I've been to Istanbul 4 times since 2014. This place is legit.
Philly’s amazing and abundant Mexican food really surprised me. I wasn’t expecting it to be so common and so high quality. Mainly in South Philly.
When I lived right over the river in NJ, this was my life. South Philly is my favorite part of Philly and I have explored pretty extensively eating at various Mexican spots. I remember heading to South Philly many times in the mood for Italian, but often ending up at a Mexican spot more often than not. The Italian Market seems to be turning into the Mexican Market. My one issue is that on a night out in Philly, late night tacos are not very easy to find, which is such a shame because tacos and other antojitos are perfect late night food IMO. Philly also lacks with taco/antojito trucks. It always tastes better on the street IMO.
Jessemh, I think your statement for #3 works better if you replace NYC with just Manhattan. I’ve always felt that way about Manhattan, but the Mexican food in Queens and Brooklyn (especially Queens) is easier to find and often way cheaper too. And usually more authentic, since often times Manhattan places tend to be different to justify the high prices and often seem more Americanized. Not saying that authentic Mexican food isn’t available to find in Manhattan, just that it’s way easier to find in Queens. Check out Elmhurst, Jackson Heights, and Corona. Walk underneath and/or near the 7 train. Countless cheap, delicious Mexican places. Not only is Roosevelt Ave lined with taco trucks that stay open all night, but there are plenty of eat-in Mexican restaurants too. Actually I have plans to go out in Queens tonight so I’m making myself hungry because I know where I’ll be at 4am lol.
there is pretty good taco truck at 10th and Washington but closes by 1 I believe on weekends
The Italian market has become a lot Mexican and Vietnamese
Philly's Pho may be the best on the EC these days, no joke
^^^^^ I’m not Chinese, but I have Chinese relatives (aunts, cousins, etc.) on both sides of my family. The older ones immigrated from China but the younger ones were born here in NY. They all prefer Flushing over Manhattan Chinatown as well. They’re all from and/or live in Queens though if that matters.
I still love Manhattan Chinatown though. Not just for the food but for the neighborhood itself too, with the narrow winding streets, the water, and the bridges. Also great Fuzhounese food in the Eastern part. They can be some of the cheapest but also most delicious meals you can find in Manhattan.
Also for Sunset Park the N train is express in both Manhattan and Brooklyn. I actually think it’s more convenient than the 7 express since the 7 only has one-direction peak express + only on weekdays while the N is express in both directions all day. The D train too is also express and nearby.
I do love the 7 train though and I really think the neighborhoods that it serves are the best in all of Queens with arguably the best food in all of NYC.
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Originally Posted by kidphilly
there is pretty good taco truck at 10th and Washington but closes by 1 I believe on weekends
The Italian market has become a lot Mexican and Vietnamese
Philly's Pho may be the best on the EC these days, no joke
Well now I know what I’m eating next time I’m in Philly!
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