Chicago vs New York from street level (rail, live, state)
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Sure, but extra space negates the density increasing effect of high rises. San Francisco and Boston have similar core residential densities to Chicago despite having fewer high rises, so what's the urbanity difference? It's just housing style preference then. Chicago's office skyscrapers do create higher employment densities, but as a negative some commercial streets don't have much on street level besides office entrances. But yes, it does make its downtown feel bigger than say, San Francisco or Boston.
Also keep in mind that many of your premium residential highrises in Chicago will have units with larger floor plans with less units and people per floor compared to another kind of residential highrise in Hong Kong or NYC with more units with smaller less floor space with more people per floor (mainly apartment types). The number of people who live in a highrise will depend on the number of units, unit space and number of people living on each floor. I've been in a highrise with only 4 large units per floor (less people and some with as many as 10 or 12 units having more people. I agree office skyscrapers will have higher densities when filled with more people (workers) closer together for every many sq. foot of space on each floor.
IChicago isn't the only city here with parking garages or surface parking even though it has more of them.
You still, repeatedly, seem to lack any sort of reading comprehension skills.
No one claimed that any city has no parking garages, and the fact that every city has parking garages does not mean that every city is the same in terms of parking orientation.
Venice, Italy has parking garages, Phoenix, Arizona has parking garages. They are not the same. Hong Kong has skyscrapers, Peoria, IL has skyscrapers. They are not the same. Not sure why you keep repeating this weird red herring. Having few of something isn't the same as having many of something.
Also keep in mind that many of your premium residential highrises in Chicago will have units with larger floor plans with less units and people per floor compared to another kind of residential highrise in Hong Kong or NYC with more units with smaller less floor space with more people per floor (mainly apartment types).
I would wager that, on average, superluxury units in NYC are actually much larger than their equivalents in Chicago.
Chicago highrises tend to be rentals or cheaper condos and tend to be heavily oriented towards studios or 1 bedrooms. In Manhattan, there are barely any buildings being built that offer 1 bedrooms. Unit sizes tend to be enormous in newer construction or in older luxury buildings.
The wealthy in NYC, overwhelmingly, live in apartment houses. The wealthy in Chicago, overwhelmingly, live in single family homes. Apartment living in Chicago, for the most part, is for younger people, singles, renters and the like. It's basically for a certain stage in life.
I would wager that, on average, superluxury units in NYC are actually much larger than their equivalents in Chicago.
Probably, but I don't that's what he had in mind referring to premium.
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You still, repeatedly, seem to lack any sort of reading comprehension skills.
No one claimed that any city has no parking garages, and the fact that every city has parking garages does not mean that every city is the same in terms of parking orientation.
And you often don't read posts yourself, and argue against pieces of posts and then claim the other person lack reading comprehension. He started by saying:
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It's a lot more than just a few. Chicago may have more of them but Manhattan has plenty as well.
He was responding to the claim Manhattan has few parking garages. Manhattan has 102,000 off-street parking spaces below 60th street. Per the number of people visiting / commuting, this is a low ratio, low compared to Chicago let alone most American cities, but similar to larger European cities.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,284,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
You still, repeatedly, seem to lack any sort of reading comprehension skills.
No one claimed that any city has no parking garages, and the fact that every city has parking garages does not mean that every city is the same in terms of parking orientation.
Venice, Italy has parking garages, Phoenix, Arizona has parking garages. They are not the same. Hong Kong has skyscrapers, Peoria, IL has skyscrapers. They are not the same. Not sure why you keep repeating this weird red herring. Having few of something isn't the same as having many of something.
Our oldstyle NOLA is back. To insult another who does have good grammar and sentence structure unlike me..... it was uncalled for for just disagreeing with you.
You really do have a thing for parking garages...... phoenix has some nice adobe garages.... like the Flintstones LOL. Why would anyone remotely want to compare Venice for anything to make some point?
The only reference EVER on C-D I say to someone saying a city or Borough has NO parking garages was YOU in a thread LOOOONG ago under Manhattan skyscrapers. They gave you some pictures to prove Manhattan did. You never replied to that one then again.
I go to check this claim of yours out too...... Peoria has skyscrapers? You do know a skyscraper is like 30-some + stories at least? Less is a Mid-rise or High-Rise..... Urbanologist is always a good, clear poster. Always to the point and civil......
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He was responding to the claim Manhattan has few parking garages. Manhattan has 102,000 off-street parking spaces below 60th street. Per the number of people visiting / commuting, this is a low ratio, low compared to Chicago let alone most American cities, but similar to larger European cities.
I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. NYC, relative to Chicago, has few parking spaces, and is much less car-oriented. That's all.
The previous poster has a pattern of responses with a repeated red herring. If someone writes something obvious like "Hong Kong has more highrises than Peoria" then he will respond "yeah but look at these highrises in Peoria and here are some lowrises in Hong Kong." if someone writes "Phoenix is warmer than Boston" then the response will be "yeah but look at all these hot days in Boston and cool days in Phoenix." That's kind of a ridiculous argumentative technique.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,284,404 times
Reputation: 1483
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
I would wager that, on average, superluxury units in NYC are actually much larger than their equivalents in Chicago.
Chicago highrises tend to be rentals or cheaper condos and tend to be heavily oriented towards studios or 1 bedrooms. In Manhattan, there are barely any buildings being built that offer 1 bedrooms. Unit sizes tend to be enormous in newer construction or in older luxury buildings.
The wealthy in NYC, overwhelmingly, live in apartment houses. The wealthy in Chicago, overwhelmingly, live in single family homes. Apartment living in Chicago, for the most part, is for younger people, singles, renters and the like. It's basically for a certain stage in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101
The relative difference in city populations has nothing to do with relative differences in street level feel.
LA doesn't have a stronger street level feel than Chicago just because it is much bigger. NYC wouldn't have a different street level feel if its population were bigger or smaller. City populations are essentially irrelevant to street level vibrancy.
NOLA.... Just give up the SPIN. You make comparisons to size and to DOWNPLAY AND LESSEN Chicago in EVERY WAY VS. NYC. On things not even about density.
No one is arguing Downtown Chicago or North Shore is MORE dense then Manhattan. Just aspects on street-level can have and does.... but not 24 hours a day. Chicago's street-life keeps increasing and THERE IS A DIRECT COROLATION TO INCREASED POPULATION LIVING IN AND NEAR DOWNTOWN. ALSO INCREASE IN TOURISM. They ALL head to a smaller downtown too where NYC's tourist have a much larger area to visit in Manhattan too.
Density counts people directly living in a area. STREET-LEVEL is not about condo size and number of penthouses whole floors. Size doesn't matter NOLA.... . Besides. Plenty of TINY Apt's in Tenements in Manhattan to argue Chicago's are cheap condos and smaller. LOL
One thing in saying NYC would have ALL THE SAME BUSINESS STREET-LEVEL if lower densities or number of people living there.... IT certainly WOULD HAVE LESS STORES AND EATERIES IS LESS PEOPLE TO CATER TOO. Therefore less businesses to have the same Street-Level traffic. You can't have it both ways.
Once Garages and parking was brought in. I knew its a THING you have against them. They can affect STREET-LEVEL if they cause a REDUCTION in Retail and businesses. You won't walk a block with a HUGE GARAGE and little else. Chicago .... IS NOT LIKE THAT. I gave examples of Garages WITH RETAIL BELOW.
You still, repeatedly, seem to lack any sort of reading comprehension skills.
No one claimed that any city has no parking garages, and the fact that every city has parking garages does not mean that every city is the same in terms of parking orientation.
Venice, Italy has parking garages, Phoenix, Arizona has parking garages. They are not the same. Hong Kong has skyscrapers, Peoria, IL has skyscrapers. They are not the same. Not sure why you keep repeating this weird red herring. Having few of something isn't the same as having many of something.
Speaking of comprehension, Steeps only made this statement, "NYC has few Parking garages in Manhattan." I never contested that anyone made such a claim that it had none. I only provided sources to indicate that there were more than a just a few parking garages in Manhattan which is already an established "fact".
Speaking of comprehension, Steeps only made this statement, "NYC has few Parking garages in Manhattan." I never contested that anyone made such a claim that it had none. I only provided sources to indicate that there were more than a just a few parking garages in Manhattan which is already an established "fact".
You still don't get it, and I suspect you never will.
NYC does have very few garages relative to Chicago. That's the whole point. Chicago is far more auto-oriented. 100% of newer Chicago residential towers have big garages, while basically 0% of newer NYC residential buildings have big garages. The fact that you can find many garages in NYC (and in every other city on earth) does not negate this point, and does not make all cities automatically the same.
No city has no garages, so your red herring can be discarded. Venice doesn't have the same auto orientation as Schamuburg just because I can find garages in both. Tokyo doesn't have the same population as Bumblefunk, Mississippi just because they both have people. The Willis Tower isn't the same as a single-wide trailer just because they are both buildings.
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phoenix has some nice adobe garages.... like the Flintstones LOL. Why would anyone remotely want to compare Venice for anything to make some point? 
. Besides. Plenty of TINY Apt's in Tenements in Manhattan to argue Chicago's are cheap condos and smaller. LOL
