Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Lagos and Mumbai are bigger than New York City, so I guess we should all just accept the fact that they are better than NYC. And all those people voting for New York City over Mexico City in a current thread in this forum are wrong, Mexico City is bigger, so of course it's better than New York City.
When it comes to city feel, Phoenix and Albuquerque are about the same. And that's what I originally said makes me not be impressed by Phoenix. I am impressed by the urban feel in parts of places like Denver and Seattle, especially their downtowns. Even Salt Lake City has impressed me. Boise has really impressed me in that it is smaller than Albuquerque but its downtown feels much bigger and is more built up than ours. Downtown Phoenix and places like Tempe have never wowed me. They feel like our downtown and UNM/Nob Hill areas here in Albuquerque. Are they bigger and are there more and taller buildings in them than in their counterparts in Albuquerque? Yes, but not to the point of huge disparity and imbalance and especially when accounting for size disparity alone. That's why I said Phoenix merely has a greater volume of what you will find here. Phoenix just feels and looks like what Albuquerque would be like if it was five times bigger and it stayed the same as it is now in terms of advancement. Places like Downtown Denver make me imagine what Albuquerque could be like if we really overachieved and had much better indicators than we do now and were three times bigger. Sort of like how Omaha makes me reflect on what Albuquerque could look like as a city now if we were as rich and economically prosperous as they are now at our same size. Is everybody catching my drift here?
WOAH.... I really really disagree with that statement. I've been to ABQ and when I went it truly didn't remind me of Phoenix. That's like saying Albuquerque feels like Las vegas or San Diego feels like Los Angeles. Albuquerque looks and feels just like Tucson, I will give you that.The two cities are not on the same level even though you think so. Albuquerque TRULEY feels like the southwest where as Phoenix, like vegas, just feels like a little brother to Southern California culturally speaking(I have lived in both). Phoenix is home to a multitude of world class resorts, great restaurants such as the pizzaria downtown that got shutdown and rented out for Oprah, Fashion Square which has a multitude of luxury shopping, over 200 golf courses throughout the city, and not to mention the topography feels different. If you can't tell the difference between the feel and look of Phoenix and ABQ then you have not spent a lot of time in Phoenix. To me ABQ looks like West Phoenix and south phoenix if I had to compare aspects of the two cities, but have you ever taken into account Phoenix as a whole(which looks way more like Vegas than ABLQ). For instance all of eastern phoenix, our downtown(although not impressive, it doesn't look like ABQ's downtown), all of scottsdale, Tempe, ect. doesn't look a thing like ABQ. I liked Albuquerque when I went there, but it just didn't feel like phoenix. I have two friends who moved from Albuquerque to Phoenix because they wanted a change, and have loved their move. I also have a friend who moved to a suburb of Albuquerque to get away from Phoenix and has loved their decision to move also, so both Phoenix and Albuquerque attract different types of people.
Last edited by i'm not a cookie; 03-07-2016 at 02:35 PM..
Location: northern Vermont - previously NM, WA, & MA
10,744 posts, read 23,798,187 times
Reputation: 14650
Quote:
Originally Posted by i'm not a cookie
WOAH.... I really really disagree with that statement. I've been to ABQ and when I went it truly didn't remind me of Phoenix. That's like saying Albuquerque feels like Las vegas or San Diego feels like Los Angeles. Albuquerque looks and feels just like Tucson, I will give you that.The two cities are not on the same level even though you think so. Albuquerque TRULEY feels like the southwest where as Phoenix, like vegas, just feels like a little brother to Southern California culturally speaking(I have lived in both). Phoenix is home to a multitude of world class resorts, great restaurants such as the pizzaria downtown that got shutdown and rented out for Oprah, Fashion Square which has a multitude of luxury shopping, over 200 golf courses throughout the city, and not to mention the topography feels different. If you can't tell the difference between the feel and look of Phoenix and ABQ then you have not spent a lot of time in Phoenix. To me ABQ looks like West Phoenix and south phoenix if I had to compare aspects of the two cities, but have you ever taken into account Phoenix as a whole(which looks way more like Vegas than ABLQ). For instance all of eastern phoenix, our downtown(although not impressive, it doesn't look like ABQ's downtown), all of scottsdale, Tempe, ect. doesn't look a thing like ABQ. I liked Albuquerque when I went there, but it just didn't feel like phoenix. I have two friends who moved from Albuquerque to Phoenix because they wanted a change, and have loved their move. I also have a friend who moved to a suburb of Albuquerque to get away from Phoenix and has loved their decision to move also, so both Phoenix and Albuquerque attract different types of people.
I live in Albuquerque and I'm moving to Phoenix towards the end of the year. I have much to say on this topic but having read through this thread already I will have to refrain as I don't want to get caught up in this...
But I will say I definitely agree with most of what you said in this post.
Lagos and Mumbai are bigger than New York City, so I guess we should all just accept the fact that they are better than NYC. And all those people voting for New York City over Mexico City in a current thread in this forum are wrong, Mexico City is bigger, so of course it's better than New York City.
When it comes to city feel, Phoenix and Albuquerque are about the same. And that's what I originally said makes me not be impressed by Phoenix. I am impressed by the urban feel in parts of places like Denver and Seattle, especially their downtowns. Even Salt Lake City has impressed me. Boise has really impressed me in that it is smaller than Albuquerque but its downtown feels much bigger and is more built up than ours. Downtown Phoenix and places like Tempe have never wowed me. They feel like our downtown and UNM/Nob Hill areas here in Albuquerque. Are they bigger and are there more and taller buildings in them than in their counterparts in Albuquerque? Yes, but not to the point of huge disparity and imbalance and especially when accounting for size disparity alone. That's why I said Phoenix merely has a greater volume of what you will find here. Phoenix just feels and looks like what Albuquerque would be like if it was five times bigger and it stayed the same as it is now in terms of advancement. Places like Downtown Denver make me imagine what Albuquerque could be like if we really overachieved and had much better indicators than we do now and were three times bigger. Sort of like how Omaha makes me reflect on what Albuquerque could look like as a city now if we were as rich and economically prosperous as they are now at our same size. Is everybody catching my drift here?
When the criteria involves dining, shopping, entertainment, and night life, this without a doubt favors a bigger location. The difference between NYC and Mexico City in that forum is due to the fact Mexico City is in a country that isn't doing as well as us economically. Just like Lagos and Mumbai aren't good comparisons for NYC because of how poor they are.
A good CvC thread to determine if bigger is better would be to neutralize as much variables as possible. Allowing a 1st world vs. 2nd/3rd world city (like the NYC vs. Mexico City thread) will obviously favor a smaller, first world city. There is a reason a 3rd world city isn't a 1st world one, and everyone would rather be in a 1st world city. So you'd have to compare a big 1st world city to another big 1st world city (to eliminate variables in entertainment and dining which can be seen in a big vs. small city). Like NYC vs. Tokyo. If NYC would win that comparison then it's not always bigger is better. Seoul is the only other 1st world city that is bigger than NYC in population (by metro area) that would be a good comparison.
As far as Phoenix and Albuquerque being about the same... I disagree. I hear from many people on the C-D forums that Tucson and ABQ are roughly the same or at least close to each other. If that's truly the case than ABQ and Phoenix are not similar at all. Tucson and Phoenix are very different cities, even if Tucson was the same size as Phoenix it would still be very different. Phoenix is one of the only big cities in the U.S. (metro area) that still is conservative (most cities lose conservatism when they grow) and considering the population size of ABQ and Tucson and they are liberal already speaks volumes. The political identities of citizens within a city transcends into the culture of an area. Not to mention that Tucson and ABQ from the looks of it are structured differently than Phoenix. Phoenix is structured like Los Angeles with lots of mini hubs rather than a true CBD like what Tucson has at least.
Not gonna lie, Arizona and New Mexico would probably be dead-last if I were ranking states I wanted to live in. Maybe Phoenix just because it's bigger so I'd be more likely to find some neighborhood I liked.
WOAH.... I really really disagree with that statement. I've been to ABQ and when I went it truly didn't remind me of Phoenix. That's like saying Albuquerque feels like Las vegas or San Diego feels like Los Angeles. Albuquerque looks and feels just like Tucson, I will give you that.The two cities are not on the same level even though you think so. Albuquerque TRULEY feels like the southwest where as Phoenix, like vegas, just feels like a little brother to Southern California culturally speaking(I have lived in both). Phoenix is home to a multitude of world class resorts, great restaurants such as the pizzaria downtown that got shutdown and rented out for Oprah, Fashion Square which has a multitude of luxury shopping, over 200 golf courses throughout the city, and not to mention the topography feels different. If you can't tell the difference between the feel and look of Phoenix and ABQ then you have not spent a lot of time in Phoenix. To me ABQ looks like West Phoenix and south phoenix if I had to compare aspects of the two cities, but have you ever taken into account Phoenix as a whole(which looks way more like Vegas than ABLQ). For instance all of eastern phoenix, our downtown(although not impressive, it doesn't look like ABQ's downtown), all of scottsdale, Tempe, ect. doesn't look a thing like ABQ. I liked Albuquerque when I went there, but it just didn't feel like phoenix. I have two friends who moved from Albuquerque to Phoenix because they wanted a change, and have loved their move. I also have a friend who moved to a suburb of Albuquerque to get away from Phoenix and has loved their decision to move also, so both Phoenix and Albuquerque attract different types of people.
Apparently you didn't catch my drift. I was talking about feel in regard to (relative to size) level of urbanity and performance in terms of economy and wealth to produce a dynamic city, not whether Albuquerque is a carbon copy of Phoenix in looks or overall feel. I've already acknowledged the differences there. Please reread my post because it had nothing to do with what you responded with.
Phoenix is a metro of almost 4.5 million and Albuquerque is a metro of just over 900,000 people. So Phoenix is five times bigger than Albuquerque. That size disparity alone is going to ensure that it has things Albuquerque doesn't or which we can't support at our size. But if Albuquerque were as big as Phoenix I have no doubt we would be very similar across the board in terms of amenities, infrastructure, economy and level of urbanity. Why? Because when broken down into per capita and percentages Phoenix is not much more advanced than Albuquerque is now and in some cases less advanced with worse indicators.
When the criteria involves dining, shopping, entertainment, and night life, this without a doubt favors a bigger location. The difference between NYC and Mexico City in that forum is due to the fact Mexico City is in a country that isn't doing as well as us economically. Just like Lagos and Mumbai aren't good comparisons for NYC because of how poor they are.
A good CvC thread to determine if bigger is better would be to neutralize as much variables as possible. Allowing a 1st world vs. 2nd/3rd world city (like the NYC vs. Mexico City thread) will obviously favor a smaller, first world city. There is a reason a 3rd world city isn't a 1st world one, and everyone would rather be in a 1st world city. So you'd have to compare a big 1st world city to another big 1st world city (to eliminate variables in entertainment and dining which can be seen in a big vs. small city). Like NYC vs. Tokyo. If NYC would win that comparison then it's not always bigger is better. Seoul is the only other 1st world city that is bigger than NYC in population (by metro area) that would be a good comparison.
As far as Phoenix and Albuquerque being about the same... I disagree. I hear from many people on the C-D forums that Tucson and ABQ are roughly the same or at least close to each other. If that's truly the case than ABQ and Phoenix are not similar at all. Tucson and Phoenix are very different cities, even if Tucson was the same size as Phoenix it would still be very different. Phoenix is one of the only big cities in the U.S. (metro area) that still is conservative (most cities lose conservatism when they grow) and considering the population size of ABQ and Tucson and they are liberal already speaks volumes. The political identities of citizens within a city transcends into the culture of an area. Not to mention that Tucson and ABQ from the looks of it are structured differently than Phoenix. Phoenix is structured like Los Angeles with lots of mini hubs rather than a true CBD like what Tucson has at least.
See my last post above this one. The disparity between Phoenix and Albuquerque is not at all like the disparity between a city in the developing world to New York City. The disparities aren't even nearly like the disparity between Phoenix and Denver or Albuquerque and Omaha.
Not to mention that Tucson and ABQ from the looks of it are structured differently than Phoenix. Phoenix is structured like Los Angeles with lots of mini hubs rather than a true CBD like what Tucson has at least.
I just wanted to expand on and reply to this specifically. Albuquerque actually isn't like Tucson in that regard and is more like Los Angeles. Our biggest office area isn't our downtown it is North I-25. Unfortunately that is the true economic center or CBD of the city. We also have Uptown and several other areas besides our downtown such as the area around Sandia National Labs and Kirtland Air Force Base in the southeast part of town. Then we have places like Old Town and UNM area/Nob Hill for the more cultural, restaurant and nightlife sorts of things. Downtown Albuquerque is generally disregarded and even despised by the majority of people in this city. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. It's amazing it progresses at all considering what it is up against.
But doesn't Tucson have places similar to Uptown Albuquerque and North I-25? I know it has 4th Avenue and the entrance to the University of Arizona as places like our Nob Hill and the area opposite UNM on Central.
Lived 21 years in Albuquerque and 12 years and counting in the PHX area. PHX wins by a wide margin.
Way more things to in in PHX, better shopping, food variety, sports, entertainment, concerts, lower crime, better job opportunities, and imo the weather is better(some people can't handle it but personally I love it)
I just wanted to expand on and reply to this specifically. Albuquerque actually isn't like Tucson in that regard and is more like Los Angeles. Our biggest office area isn't our downtown it is North I-25. Unfortunately that is the true economic center or CBD of the city. We also have Uptown and several other areas besides our downtown such as the area around Sandia National Labs and Kirtland Air Force Base in the southeast part of town. Then we have places like Old Town and UNM area/Nob Hill for the more cultural, restaurant and nightlife sorts of things. Downtown Albuquerque is generally disregarded and even despised by the majority of people in this city. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. It's amazing it progresses at all considering what it is up against.
But doesn't Tucson have places similar to Uptown Albuquerque and North I-25? I know it has 4th Avenue and the entrance to the University of Arizona as places like our Nob Hill and the area opposite UNM on Central.
I wouldn't count one large employer or AFB as a hub. I'm talking about business hubs for employment or CBDs. Phoenix has a multitude of these areas, some of the more notable ones would be Kierland, Biltmore, Northern Tempe, Uptown, Downtown, Deer Valley, the area just south of Sky Harbor (not sure what it's called honestly, but lots of jobs are there). I didn't even go into Southeast Valley which I'm sure has some as well but I'm not as familiar with that area. Los Angeles is like this as well with people working everywhere, random high rises for corporations (at least it seems that way on the freeways there) in random looking areas. I would say the areas I listed above, besides Downtown and Uptown, are "random" areas for CBDs. Most of the major employers for Phoenix are outside of the Downtown and Uptown CBD and are instead in one of the other areas I mentioned.
Phoenix's entertainment hubs are the Tempe/Old Town Scottsdale area, so near the University as well.
Tucson's 4th Avenue, U of A, and Downtown are one mile apart or so. I'd say it's one mile from campus to 4th Avenue, and 4th Avenue goes into Downtown so... I wouldn't count them as separate hubs. One mile isn't a big enough distance. Tucson's larger employers are mostly in this area (U of A and the government) while Davis-Monthan is about five miles away from Downtown. Raytheon, the biggest private employer in Tucson, is right next to the Tucson airport near the I-19. Besides Raytheon most major employers are near the Downtown area. So one true hub and CBD for Tucson. The areas I mentioned for Phoenix are probably at least 10 miles apart if not more, depending on the areas being compared (except Uptown and Downtown).
I wouldn't count one large employer or AFB as a hub. I'm talking about business hubs for employment or CBDs. Phoenix has a multitude of these areas, some of the more notable ones would be Kierland, Biltmore, Northern Tempe, Uptown, Downtown, Deer Valley, the area just south of Sky Harbor (not sure what it's called honestly, but lots of jobs are there). I didn't even go into Southeast Valley which I'm sure has some as well but I'm not as familiar with that area. Los Angeles is like this as well with people working everywhere, random high rises for corporations (at least it seems that way on the freeways there) in random looking areas. I would say the areas I listed above, besides Downtown and Uptown, are "random" areas for CBDs. Most of the major employers for Phoenix are outside of the Downtown and Uptown CBD and are instead in one of the other areas I mentioned.
Phoenix's entertainment hubs are the Tempe/Old Town Scottsdale area, so near the University as well.
Tucson's 4th Avenue, U of A, and Downtown are one mile apart or so. I'd say it's one mile from campus to 4th Avenue, and 4th Avenue goes into Downtown so... I wouldn't count them as separate hubs. One mile isn't a big enough distance. Tucson's larger employers are mostly in this area (U of A and the government) while Davis-Monthan is about five miles away from Downtown. Raytheon, the biggest private employer in Tucson, is right next to the Tucson airport near the I-19. Besides Raytheon most major employers are near the Downtown area. So one true hub and CBD for Tucson. The areas I mentioned for Phoenix are probably at least 10 miles apart if not more, depending on the areas being compared (except Uptown and Downtown).
Across the street from Sandia National Labs, which is located on, and at the eastern edge of KAFB, is the Sandia Science and Technology Park where private companies are located, many of which are spin-offs from the labs that utilize the technology developed at the labs to develop products and services or otherwise further refine the technology. Over 20,000 people work at SNL/KAFB, which is half the number of people that work in Downtown Albuquerque. Kirtland Air Force Base shares its runways with our airport and most of the jobs and buildings on base are located in the eastern end where Sandia Labs are located. I won't say it's exactly a skyline but you definitely notice the cluster of 3-5 story buildings that house Sandia. It is most definitely one of the main areas of employment and a business and overall hub in Albuquerque. To the north on Eubank (the dividing street) is an important retail area with Costco and Sam's Club and big box retailers and tons of chain restaurants.
Also, to the northwest and down along the western edge of the ABQ/KAFB main runway is the Airport submarket which has lots of office space and companies housed there as well, such as Ethicon and Eclipse Aerospace. It is of course a hub for hotels, car rental places, warehousing and increasingly for residential and retail uses as well.
If you're counting places a mile apart as being a core and connected then I'd say Intel in Rio Rancho and the Cottonwood Mall area of Albuquerque are one such area as well. It's most definitely a hub of activity. There's lots of restaurants, retail, car dealerships, medical and general office space in that area. Midtown Albuquerque is another hub of business activity in the city. It also is a center for retail, hotels and craft breweries. Additionally, I would actually count the UNM area as separate from our downtown and a hub of its own. UNM is about 2.5 miles from downtown. It does directly abut Nob Hill, though.
And the intersection of San Mateo and Central is another hub. It was envisioned as an uptown-kinda place and new business district for the city in the 1950s and '60s, but it never fully realized that vision. Albuquerque's actual Uptown stole its thunder, especially in the 1980s. It was left with two high-rise office buildings (one of which is the tallest in the state outside of Downtown Albuquerque) and a few midrise apartment buildings and lowrise office buildings, one of which is where Bill Gates and Paul Allen started Microsoft in the 1970s. It is also a hub for retail and one of the busiest pedestrian areas in the city. It's also next to one of the so-called worst parts of town, but it's still notable and one of our hubs nonetheless.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
