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Yes, maybe ABQ people appreciate it more. I think ABQ is a cute little city, but I want to add that while it is true that Phoenix has a greater volume of what you'll find in ABQ, it also offers a greater variety and standard of things that you simply will not find in ABQ, no matter how you choose to word it.
Regarding water usage, AZ leads most other states in water conservation (including New Mexico I believe), so I'm not quite sure why you had to interject that tidbit, unless you're pulling at straws to find ways of expressing your disdain for Phoenix.
In any case, it appears that New Mexico residents prefer to visit Arizona more than any other state based upon hotel bookings according to this site (scroll down), so we must be offering something: https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nat...a-top-our-list
I think you'll find that the majority of visitors to any state come from neighboring states. There's really no special dynamic there. For New Mexico, the largest amounts of visitors come from Texas, Arizona and Colorado.
As for water conservation, I can't find apples to apples stats for Phoenix and Albuquerque, but Albuquerque annually is using the same amount of water today that it did in 1983 but with 70 percent more people in its water service area. Our usage per person per day is at 138 gallons as of last year as compared to 250 in the early 1990s when our conservation efforts first began.
All I can find for Phoenix is residential use per capita, which is not the same as overall water use broken down to per person per day.
And I'll stick to my opinion of my "cute little city" compared to Phoenix, thank you.
I think you'll find that the majority of visitors to any state come from neighboring states. There's really no special dynamic there. For New Mexico, the largest amounts of visitors come from Texas, Arizona and Colorado.
As for water conservation, I can't find apples to apples stats for Phoenix and Albuquerque, but Albuquerque annually is using the same amount of water today that it did in 1983 but with 70 percent more people in its water service area. Our usage per person per day is at 138 gallons as of last year as compared to 250 in the early 1990s when our conservation efforts first began.
All I can find for Phoenix is residential use per capita, which is not the same as overall water use broken down to per person per day.
And I'll stick to my opinion of my "cute little city" compared to Phoenix, thank you.
I have no problem with you sticking to your opinion even if it was a casual attempt to devalue Phoenix. However, if you're not sure about Phoenix or Arizona water conservation and use, why even bring it up?
I have no problem with you sticking to your opinion even if it was a casual attempt to devalue Phoenix. However, if you're not sure about Phoenix or Arizona water conservation and use, why even bring it up?
All I said initially was that it's not wise to use water to make the desert green and lush. Anybody with a brain will understand that a city with hundreds of golf courses, lush landscaping and with the amount of private swimming pools that Phoenix has will use more water than a place like Albuquerque with 13 golf courses, mostly gravel landscaping and where private pools are quite rare.
I went looking for actual stats when you claimed that Arizona is better at water conservation than New Mexico. But we're talking about Phoenix and Albuquerque specifically here, so I wanted to make an actual comparison of the cities themselves. Perhaps instead of your usual attack mode whenever anybody dares say anything about Phoenix you could find a total water use per person per day figure and share it with us?
All I said initially was that it's not wise to use water to make the desert green and lush. Anybody with a brain will understand that a city with hundreds of golf courses, lush landscaping and with the amount of private swimming pools that Phoenix has will use more water than a place like Albuquerque with 13 golf courses, mostly gravel landscaping and where private pools are quite rare.
I went looking for actual stats when you claimed that Arizona is better at water conservation than New Mexico. But we're talking about Phoenix and Albuquerque specifically here, so I wanted to make an actual comparison of the cities themselves. Perhaps instead of your usual attack mode whenever anybody dares say anything about Phoenix you could find a total water use per person per day figure and share it with us?
Usual attack mode? I think you are way off base. You were the one who initially entertained the idea of Phoenix being nothing special and that of course is your opinion. Furthermore, nobody forced you to waltz into this thread and tout your faulty assumptions (without doing your own research) that attempts to convey that because the Phoenix area has golf courses and swimming pools, it must not know how to manage water.
The majority of the area's water usage is used for agricultural purposes. Wastewater is used to irrigate many golf courses here. The city of Glendale website states the per capita average overall use per person in the metro is 136 gallons per day. The New York Times states the average per capital residential daily consumption as of 2013 was 108 gallons a day (seems low) - another site (Cronkite News) said it was 123 gallons in 2010. The Arizona Department of Water Resources states that AZ residents use on average 100 gallons per day. In any case, the city of Phoenix itself (not metro) is using less water now than it did in 1996 even though the city gained 360,000 residents. The same can be said about the entire metro population even though it has doubled its size since the early 90's. Many suburbs pay residents upwards of a few hundred dollars per 500 square feet of grass they remove from their yards. The metro also has one of the most aggressive leak repair programs in the country.
Usual attack mode? I think you are way off base. You were the one who initially entertained the idea of Phoenix being nothing special and that of course is your opinion. Furthermore, nobody forced you to waltz into this thread and tout your faulty assumptions (without doing your own research) that attempts to convey that because the Phoenix area has golf courses and swimming pools, it must not know how to manage water.
The majority of the area's water usage is used for agricultural purposes. Wastewater is used to irrigate many golf courses here. The city of Glendale website states the per capita average overall use per person in the metro is 136 gallons per day. The New York Times states the average per capital residential daily consumption as of 2013 was 108 gallons a day (seems low) - another site (Cronkite News) said it was 123 gallons in 2010. The Arizona Department of Water Resources states that AZ residents use on average 100 gallons per day. In any case, the city of Phoenix itself (not metro) is using less water now than it did in 1996 even though the city gained 360,000 residents. The same can be said about the entire metro population even though it has doubled its size since the early 90's. Many suburbs pay residents upwards of a few hundred dollars per 500 square feet of grass they remove from their yards. The metro also has one of the most aggressive leak repair programs in the country.
And nobody forced you in here either. But this is a free and public site, right?
You didn't like Nibbidy's opinion and so you decided to attack, as per usual. And yes, that is your modus operandi. Any time somebody has less than glowing things to say about Phoenix you trot out lines like they are just ignorant, don't know anything about Phoenix or are going by uninformed stereotypes. I've literally never seen you take criticisms or negative opinions of Phoenix well. That's been the case in many of these threads. The Atlanta, Minneapolis/St. Paul and Denver comparison threads are fairly recent ones which jump out in my memory quickly, but there's been many others.
Thanks for actually coming back with some info and data. Stuff like that is more appropriate and productive for comparisons in a forum called City vs. City on a site named City-Data.com. over criticizing people for even participating and daring to chime in with an opinion or point of view contrary to what you'd like to see.
And nobody forced you in here either. But this is a free and public site, right?
You didn't like Nibbidy's opinion and so you decided to attack, as per usual. And yes, that is your modus operandi. Any time somebody has less than glowing things to say about Phoenix you trot out lines like they are just ignorant, don't know anything about Phoenix or are going by uninformed stereotypes. I've literally never seen you take criticisms or negative opinions of Phoenix well. That's been the case in many of these threads. The Atlanta, Minneapolis/St. Paul and Denver comparison threads are fairly recent ones which jump out in my memory quickly, but there's been many others.
Thanks for actually coming back with some info and data. Stuff like that is more appropriate and productive for comparisons in a forum called City vs. City on a site named City-Data.com. over criticizing people for even participating and daring to chime in with an opinion or point of view contrary to what you'd like to see.
The fact is, without dispute, there are many ignorant posters on CD when it comes to Phoenix and much of the time, it has nothing to do with constructive participation. People will simply post whatever, without research, and try to backtrack later. Since you seem to like following me here on CD, perhaps you would take notice that I do not set out to intentionally talk trash about other cities like many do here and a majority of my posts are reactive to ignorance. Now you're attacking me with your sweeping generalizations about me because you got your hand stuck in that ignorant CD cookie jar yourself and I was stuck doing your research for you like I do with others. It really is annoying and redundant, but I digress.
Albuquerque may be homlier and poor compared to Phoenix, but it has personality and history.
If you are more concerned with superficial qualities, Phoenix blows Albuquerque out of the water. No competition.
It is like the difference between dating an artist and a supermodel. Both have their qualities, but it is up to the individual as to which type they prefer.
So I did my own research and came up with a report in our newspaper which gives and compares gallons per person per day for Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Tucson and Santa Fe in 2013:
Salt Lake City 235
Las Vegas 222
Phoenix 185
Albuquerque 135
Tucson 127
Santa Fe 101
Here's the story, but you'll have to wade through a few paragraphs about Santa Fe specifically to get to the numbers.
I have a feeling the lower numbers being reported by Phoenix and its suburbs is due to using the residential per capita calculations. But that ignores industry, businesses, hotels, golf courses, etc. so it's not truly representative of an area's actual water use, just a measure of how successful residential conservation has been.
Edit: Here is an official release about Albuquerque's actual water usage per person per day for 2015. It was 127 gallons, not 138 like I said initially. Excuse me, but I go by memory and Albuquerque was at 138 very recently, which is why that number came to me.
So I did my own research and came up with a report in our newspaper which gives and compares gallons per person per day for Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Tucson and Santa Fe in 2013:
Salt Lake City 235
Las Vegas 222
Phoenix 185
Albuquerque 135
Tucson 127
Santa Fe 101
Here's the story, but you'll have to wade through a few paragraphs about Santa Fe specifically to get to the numbers.
I have a feeling the lower numbers being reported by Phoenix and its suburbs is due to using the residential per capita calculations. But that ignores industry, businesses, hotels, golf courses, etc. so it's not truly representative of an area's actual water use, just a measure of how successful residential conservation has been.
Edit: Here is an official release about Albuquerque's actual water usage per person per day for 2015. It was 127 gallons, not 138 like I said initially. Excuse me, but I go by memory and Albuquerque was at 138 very recently, which is why that number came to me.
I wish i could locate the thread I created where I stated everything about Arizona's water policies and other facts. I believe I posted it in the General U.S. Forum. I think you would enjoy seeing it. I made that thread in hopes to hear comparisons of all the arid states along the Colorado (California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, and Colorado) to see who managed their water better. More people voted for Arizona in that one but no one provided me any information regarding the other states (outside of somewhat vague responses). Unfortunately for me that thread didn't get a lot of traction as I really wanted to learn more. I'm going to find the link where in my OP I provided all of this info for Arizona and paste the link here and I hope you read it. Industrial water usage (including golf courses) is surprisingly low in Arizona percentage wise when compared to residential and agriculture. Agriculture uses the most.
Anywho water usage between the cities is irrelevant to the thread topic. I don't see why we can't be civil here considering this is a thread that for the most part is based off opinions for the criteria.
Last edited by Prickly Pear; 03-06-2016 at 12:14 AM..
Reason: Added link
I wish i could locate the thread I created where I stated everything about Arizona's water policies and other facts. I believe I posted it in the General U.S. Forum. I think you would enjoy seeing it. I made that thread in hopes to hear comparisons of all the arid states along the Colorado (California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, and Colorado) to see who managed their water better. More people voted for Arizona in that one but no one provided me any information regarding the other states (outside of somewhat vague responses). Unfortunately for me that thread didn't get a lot of traction as I really wanted to learn more. I'm going to find the link where in my OP I provided all of this info for Arizona and paste the link here and I hope you read it. Industrial water usage (including golf courses) is surprisingly low in Arizona percentage wise when compared to residential and agriculture. Agriculture uses the most.
I actually think I read that thread when you first posted it. I'll give it another look, though.
Agriculture is the biggest use of water pretty much everywhere. That's true in California and it's true in New Mexico as well. New Mexico grows many things, most notably alfalfa, pecans and of course, chile.
Something that New Mexico doesn't share with places like Arizona, California and Nevada is the abundance of golf courses and a propensity to make arid environments lush and green. Why anybody is trying to minimize that or pretend like it isn't true is beyond me. In all of New Mexico there are 83 golf courses. In Maricopa County alone there are 220. In your city of Tucson there are lots more as well and all across Arizona even more. Some may be watered with wastewater but not all of them and not even close to a majority of them.
But then, here in New Mexico that is true as well, so let's not pretend like Arizona is ahead of the curve and being really innovative in not wasting good water on golf courses by instead using wastewater to water them. Albuquerque has a whole area of town which is hooked up to use wastewater for landscaping and industrial uses. That area is North I-25, which is the biggest office and industrial area in this city and one of the few legacy green and lush areas of the city. (A holdover from the early 1980s when it was believed that Albuquerque sat on top of an "underground Lake Superior" and that our aquifer was limitless and inexhaustible).
Quote:
Anywho water usage between the cities is irrelevant to the thread topic. I don't see why we can't be civil here considering this is a thread that for the most part is based off opinions for the criteria.
It may be irrelevant but I think it is a lot more stimulating and appropriate for this site and forum than dropping one sentence posts and attacking others based on their views and opinions.
The only reason I brought it up is because people were saying how much prettier Phoenix is, I offered my opinion as to why most of that is the case. The natural environments aren't drastically different to where you can say that Phoenix is much more beautiful than Albuquerque, IMO. It is only when one accounts for landscaping that there is much of a difference, which is why I gave my perspective and questioned the use of the West's most precious resource in making the desert green.
The desert around Phoenix is naturally more beautiful than Albuquerque's desert, which is mostly bare dirt and scrubland with some geological features, but Albuquerque has the oasis quality and beauty of the Rio Grande and it's Bosque to offer up as a counterpoint to that disparity in desert environments, which is why I mentioned that as well. There's also the pastoral quality and green made possible by the network of irrigation canals and ditches lining the Rio Grande and throughout the valley floor. The wildlife supported by this is really incredible and adds to the overall beauty.
It also has the Sandia Mountains and its foothills, which are also naturally more varied, greener and taller than the mountains in Phoenix. And when they are snow-covered they are breathtaking. Are Phoenix's mountains ever snow covered? Phoenix does have an advantage in that it is built among its mountains whereas Albuquerque's are to the side of its urban area. The view of the Manzano Mountains and the Four Hills area in Albuquerque are the closest we come to having Phoenix's mountain feel.
Water usage and conservation will eventually impact quality of life in the arid West, and that was one of the OPs criteria for comparison, but excuse me if I went off-topic and didn't just contribute a one line zinger and hostile criticism of others opinions like most outside of this side discussion I caused.
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