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I am a 51 year old black man born and raised in Philly but currently residing in Maryland since 1999.
Growing up in Philly I saw hip hop raw and probably way before it become commercialized and nationwide in the early eighties.
I was exposed to the early eighties rappers convention tapes from Harlem world.
I saw people in Philly at block parties and clubs rhyming on the mic for 30 minutes straight without breaks with crazy high flow, word count, originality and complexity..I saw dj's mixing crazy records with up to 4 and 5 turntables at a time per dj.....I saw dj's mixing and scratching records with spoons, forks and even some used thier manhood to mix and scratch....we had rappers (some of which were girls and women - way before Roxanne and Mc Light) and dj's throuout the city at block parties, clubs and even on the radio..with local radio shows (wkdu, what and later power 99). They were all competing with each other trying to stretch grow and be more original than the next group. they constantly competed with each other and sometimes with groups from New York.....all of this competition made the craft of rapping and djing constantly evolve and improve......I was amazed to see all of this growing up and wonderred why more of these people from the neighborhoods around the city weren't making records......
I saw Hip -Hop change and improve each year through the eighties and into the ninties the golden era of Hip hop.
One thing that isn't mentioned in this debate about Hip Hop is this, the art began as performers that could perform live and rhyme off the top of the head and be improvasational....similar to jazz......the rappers had to have talent and to have already proved themselves and their skill from among a sea of competitors before being considerred record ready .......
All. Of this competition amongst the rhymers in New York in particular produced ever changing steel that few if any other regions could match. The ever changing complexity, energy, creativity and bravado that emerged from New York (and yes some Philly men and women)is undeniable even if it did not always result in record sales and financial success that's common today.......
I think that what
Krs one once said -"mainly what I rhyme is for the average New Yorker" is prophetic. New York (and Philly) rhymers were battling each other constantly and they wrote and rhymed for that audience....because if that audience accepted them, then the nation would follow .....as they did.....
The New York audience was tough, discerning and knew and respected hip hop from true artists that could rhyme live - be creative, improvisational in a cypher and dust off all competition undeniably.
And unfortunately, there I believe lies the problem of Hip Hop, as it has evolved or devolved to be what it has become today.
Few rappers not of the New York region could compete with New Yorkers in lyrics, flow, word count, complexity and originality and I beleive that the record industry heads knew and understood this so, they had to break the mold, slow things down (meaning weaker lyrics, slower delivery, reduced word count, remove the ever changing street slang) so that just about anyone could rap from anywhere in the country wether they are from LA, Georgia, Texas or Florida.
Everyone knows that the pace, ferocity and tenacity of the everyday language spoken in New York and Philly leant itself to the pace, complexity and ever changing styles of rhyming during the golden era of the late eighties to the Ninties.......People from the other regions of the country like from LA, Georgia, Texas or Florida aren't know for aggressive, complex fast talking ....and everyone knows this....that is why rhyming from the other regions were delivered at a slower pace with less complexity and without the lyrical dexterity. .....and I believe that if most rhymers from the other regions had to be tested in the competitive cauldron out of which most New York rappers made it, they wouldn't have survived.
So the audiences from the other regions of the country were less critical and discerning and accepted anything called hip hop even if it was garbage -with a loud base -fast electronic dance trac -with few if any lyrics (that's why vanilla ice and hammer were so disliked by manny New York rappers because the New Yorkers knew that Hammers talent was suspect as a ryhmer and that he wouldn't be taken seriously in New York, but he could dance and was an entertainer and the nation, not understanding the differnce, accepted him as a rapper.!
I also beleive that
The record companies fed the masses the garbage so as to water down the craft and water down the "thinking" masses......I honestly beleive that the best products produced during the golden era of Hip Hop particularly from New York ....May have alarmed and frieghtened some of the powers that be...so someone decided that the garbage, base, less complex and ever changing Hip hop had to die and a uniform garbage had to be promoted so that all so called Hip hop had to sound the same wether the rapper was from Cali, the dirty south, the mid west and yes the east coast,
less variety meant that less thought was needed.....further dumbing down of the masses. That is my opinion of the sounds made today that are called hip hop....
The roots made a song called 75 bars with 75 bars, Nas once said "in my book of rhymes all the words cross the margin" ......well this exists no more.......at one time Hip hop and the Hip hop nation and audience was progressing to something greater and larger , but unfortunately no more.....it's all about the auto tune. Some one saying the same 30 words over and over again over a pop top forty hit and people mumbling and whining.
yes people sell more records nationwide now than former New York artist but that doesn't make today's artist are better, in the words of Krs, "you think that record sales make you the dopest, relying on marketing schemes and promotion, instead of rhyme flow"
Atlanta May be the hot spot today, but it has not supplanted New Yorks place in the Hip hop pantheon....with the poor quality of hip hop today and the interchangeabilityof the characters making it (due to its current simplicity) Atlanta will eventually loose it's hot spot status in Hip Hop to Peoria Illinois or Nutbush Tennessee, forever erasing hip hops image as a complex, versatile ever changing and evolving urban art form to match the
complex, versatile ever changing and evolving urban language spoken.
I agree with a lot and also disagree with a lot youve said, Personally I think you guys are thinking that Hip Hop has to stay the same as it is now or find a new "capitol",
I say why cannot it evolve but still be in Atlanta?There are some underground artist that you will never hear on the radip but that will slowly change s people get tired of the current soundof Hip hop just like they did in the early 2000's.
No NYC will never be forgotten as the place of Hip Hop but it will always have to share it with other cities from no on.
I dont see a time where NYC will ever reign supreme but will have to share it.
I am a 51 year old black man born and raised in Philly but currently residing in Maryland since 1999.
Growing up in Philly I saw hip hop raw and probably way before it become commercialized and nationwide in the early eighties.
I was exposed to the early eighties rappers convention tapes from Harlem world.
I saw people in Philly at block parties and clubs rhyming on the mic for 30 minutes straight without breaks with crazy high flow, word count, originality and complexity..I saw dj's mixing crazy records with up to 4 and 5 turntables at a time per dj.....I saw dj's mixing and scratching records with spoons, forks and even some used thier manhood to mix and scratch....we had rappers (some of which were girls and women - way before Roxanne and Mc Light) and dj's throuout the city at block parties, clubs and even on the radio..with local radio shows (wkdu, what and later power 99). They were all competing with each other trying to stretch grow and be more original than the next group. they constantly competed with each other and sometimes with groups from New York.....all of this competition made the craft of rapping and djing constantly evolve and improve......I was amazed to see all of this growing up and wonderred why more of these people from the neighborhoods around the city weren't making records......
I saw Hip -Hop change and improve each year through the eighties and into the ninties the golden era of Hip hop.
One thing that isn't mentioned in this debate about Hip Hop is this, the art began as performers that could perform live and rhyme off the top of the head and be improvasational....similar to jazz......the rappers had to have talent and to have already proved themselves and their skill from among a sea of competitors before being considerred record ready .......
All. Of this competition amongst the rhymers in New York in particular produced ever changing steel that few if any other regions could match. The ever changing complexity, energy, creativity and bravado that emerged from New York (and yes some Philly men and women)is undeniable even if it did not always result in record sales and financial success that's common today.......
I think that what
Krs one once said -"mainly what I rhyme is for the average New Yorker" is prophetic. New York (and Philly) rhymers were battling each other constantly and they wrote and rhymed for that audience....because if that audience accepted them, then the nation would follow .....as they did.....
The New York audience was tough, discerning and knew and respected hip hop from true artists that could rhyme live - be creative, improvisational in a cypher and dust off all competition undeniably.
And unfortunately, there I believe lies the problem of Hip Hop, as it has evolved or devolved to be what it has become today.
Few rappers not of the New York region could compete with New Yorkers in lyrics, flow, word count, complexity and originality and I beleive that the record industry heads knew and understood this so, they had to break the mold, slow things down (meaning weaker lyrics, slower delivery, reduced word count, remove the ever changing street slang) so that just about anyone could rap from anywhere in the country wether they are from LA, Georgia, Texas or Florida.
Everyone knows that the pace, ferocity and tenacity of the everyday language spoken in New York and Philly leant itself to the pace, complexity and ever changing styles of rhyming during the golden era of the late eighties to the Ninties.......People from the other regions of the country like from LA, Georgia, Texas or Florida aren't know for aggressive, complex fast talking ....and everyone knows this....that is why rhyming from the other regions were delivered at a slower pace with less complexity and without the lyrical dexterity. .....and I believe that if most rhymers from the other regions had to be tested in the competitive cauldron out of which most New York rappers made it, they wouldn't have survived.
So the audiences from the other regions of the country were less critical and discerning and accepted anything called hip hop even if it was garbage -with a loud base -fast electronic dance trac -with few if any lyrics (that's why vanilla ice and hammer were so disliked by manny New York rappers because the New Yorkers knew that Hammers talent was suspect as a ryhmer and that he wouldn't be taken seriously in New York, but he could dance and was an entertainer and the nation, not understanding the differnce, accepted him as a rapper.!
I also beleive that
The record companies fed the masses the garbage so as to water down the craft and water down the "thinking" masses......I honestly beleive that the best products produced during the golden era of Hip Hop particularly from New York ....May have alarmed and frieghtened some of the powers that be...so someone decided that the garbage, base, less complex and ever changing Hip hop had to die and a uniform garbage had to be promoted so that all so called Hip hop had to sound the same wether the rapper was from Cali, the dirty south, the mid west and yes the east coast,
less variety meant that less thought was needed.....further dumbing down of the masses. That is my opinion of the sounds made today that are called hip hop....
The roots made a song called 75 bars with 75 bars, Nas once said "in my book of rhymes all the words cross the margin" ......well this exists no more.......at one time Hip hop and the Hip hop nation and audience was progressing to something greater and larger , but unfortunately no more.....it's all about the auto tune. Some one saying the same 30 words over and over again over a pop top forty hit and people mumbling and whining.
yes people sell more records nationwide now than former New York artist but that doesn't make today's artist are better, in the words of Krs, "you think that record sales make you the dopest, relying on marketing schemes and promotion, instead of rhyme flow"
Atlanta May be the hot spot today, but it has not supplanted New Yorks place in the Hip hop pantheon....with the poor quality of hip hop today and the interchangeabilityof the characters making it (due to its current simplicity) Atlanta will eventually loose it's hot spot status in Hip Hop to Peoria Illinois or Nutbush Tennessee, forever erasing hip hops image as a complex, versatile ever changing and evolving urban art form to match the
complex, versatile ever changing and evolving urban language spoken.
Well, I guess you lose it how you found it's the same way New York lost it to Atlanta.
New York, New York big city of dreams
but everything in New York ain't always what it seems
you might get fooled if you come from out of town
but I'm down by law and I know my way around
...New York IS hip hop. You ain't had no hip hop to begin with if you ain't never had no NY.
Last edited by ctr88; 12-06-2017 at 12:20 AM..
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