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Of course I'm biased, but I think New York blows Pennsylvania out of the water that the latter state lacks. Any criteria you can imagine, it's hard to argue against the Empire State's superiority over its neighbor to the south. That's not to take away anything from the Keystone State, which I do appreciate very much, but come on. New York City alone is enough to put the state over the edge, I believe. Penn's Woods come back a little bit when you compare upstate cities which, while great, fall short of the great City of Pittsburgh. But that's about where it ends. Allentown? Scranton? Williamsport? Erie? No contest. My least favorite city of all time is Johnstown, PA. Yuck! I also prefer the Adirondacks over the Poconos, Letchworth to Ohiopyle and the Hudson over the Susquehanna. While highly respectable, the commonwealth as a whole is just in a tier below New York State.
Just for fun, let's break it down to each city. When each state's respective metros face off...
New York City vs. Philadelphia:
Two powerhouses in not only their states, but also the two largest in the BosWash corridor. It may not seem fair to compare the two on the surface (NYC is almost triple the size of Philly after all), but Pennsylvania's premier city can hold its own, and does punch above its weight. Center City almost feel like a slice of Manhattan in some respects. Probably more similar than they are different, the Five Boroughs still win. Naturally, it has so much more to offer from culture to transit, economy to food, architecture to sports, nightlife to beauty. Realistically, Philly probably only wins when you consider affordability as it is far less expensive than the Big Apple.
Winner: New York City
Buffalo vs. Pittsburgh:
Like the largest cities, these two have a ton in common. Both are interior northeast cities hit hard by economic decline now experiencing a successful resurgence. The Steel City is twice the size of New York's Queen City, but feels even larger than that. Downtown is comparable to that of a city in the top 15. Neighborhoods like Oakland wipe the floor with the bustling Elmwood Village. Still though, it's competitive. Pittsburgh may very well have the most beautiful natural setting of any city in the United States, but within Buffalo's metro is Niagara Falls, one of the world's natural wonders. Pitt wins vibrancy, arts, walkability, recreation and safety. Buffalo takes cost of living, food and arguably location with its proximity to the Golden Horseshoe, which I'll note, if considered part of the Buffalo metro, makes this city far more comparable to Pittsburgh.
Winner: Pittsburgh
Rochester vs. Allentown:
The third largest cities of NY and PA are also rust belt cities slowly climbing out of their slumps. Late bloomers to revitalization, Allentown and Rochester are both reinventing their downtown areas. Rochester is the bigger city by a pretty good margin, though to the credit of the Lehigh Valley, Allentown's urban population is close and it is more dense. Nearby Bethlehem, PA is a charming area of the metro. Rochester is lush with culture with solid urban neighborhoods and is centered in the breathtaking Finger Lakes region of New York. Despite no longer possessing the powerhouses of Xerox, Kodak and Bausch & Lomb, it is healthy by upstate standards and offers big city culture with small town charm. The Roc wins comfortably with urbanity, culture, education, outdoor activities and affordability. The A hands down has the better location, climate and crime rate.
Winner: Rochester
Albany vs. Harrisburg:
The battle of the state capitals I'm afraid would be a short one. Albany is one of the earliest settled cities in the United States with a rich history and the bones to show for it. Economically, it is Upstate's healthiest region with high tech industry including nanotechnology at the forefront. Harrisburg has a nice setting, but unfortunately is a mixed bag and facing a fiscal crisis with not a whole lot to offer.
Winner: Albany
Syracuse vs. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre:
As we move into the smaller tier cities, the matchups become a bit more lopsided in favor of New York. As you travel along I-81, the lines between these metros are somewhat blurred making them feel like worthy opponents. While both areas have their issues, Central New York has fared far better than the Wyoming Valley. I know Scranton is beginning to bounce back, but Syracuse is undeniably the more desirable city, especially with SU fueling much of the vibrancy and amenities the city enjoys. It is pretty cool that The Offfice was set in Scranton, but hanging out in The 'Cuse is a blast that can put many larger cities to shame.
Winner: Syracuse
Utica vs. Lancaster:
These two cities have a bit more in contrast than most of these other comparisons. Utica has definitely seen better days and is in a pretty isolated part of a struggling region of the state. Lancaster is a charming little city enjoying success in tourism, healthcare and the arts. Interestingly, both have sizable Amish populations nearby.
Winner: Lancaster
That's 4-2 NY! Now we've settled who has the better cities . In all seriousness though, Pennsylvania has a ton to offer and is a fine neighbor that compliments the northeast quite well. Depending on your lifestyle and interests, it'll be easy to fall in love with Pennsylvania over New York and it definitely beats the latter in many ways.
I don't know if I'd call Utica isolated, given that it is in between Syracuse and Albany in the I-90 corridor. It also has quite a bit to offer still with AHL Hockey, a ballet, an orchestra, a zoo, Munson-Williams-Proctor Art Institute, nightlife on Varick Street, a degree of revitalization in the Baggs Square area and a good food scene.
I guess comparisons of say Bethlehem and Schenectady, Ithaca and State College, Erie and Binghamton, etc. would be interesting if done in a tit for tat way.
Location: Watching half my country turn into Gilead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_One_Guy
I almost ignored your post because of your political rant, but this ^^^^ is true.
What's up with PA liquor laws? Wine and liquor are only sold in special stores owned and regulated by the government (and have inconvenient hours), plus beer is only sold in beer distributor stores, which also tend to have inconvenient hours. You can't go into a regular supermarket, drug store, bodega/deli and get a beer...
Plus there's an early 2am last call, which I know is typical for most States, but it definitely doesn't help.
On the flip side of things, you can go into a bar or nightlife place and get a six-pack to go--so the party can keep going afterwards. And many, many venues are BYOB, which is huge in terms of savings and preference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp
This past year the state eased up a tiny bit on liquor purchases. Grocery stores are finally stocking their shelves with wine and beer. (that is a huge improvement).
The 2am last call I dont really care about, but I think it would benefit Philadelphia to have a 4am option.
There are definitely places that stay open after 2 am that serve alcohol in Philadelphia; there are also establishments that are BYOB after that time.
Geography- I would say pretty easily NY. Just given the variety of landscapes: LI Beaches/Islands, Hudson Valley, Catskills, high peaks of Adirondacks, Thousand Islands, Lake Champlain, Finger Lakes, Great Lakes, Niagara Falls, and pretty much everywhere not listed above is scenic rolling hills of the Appalachian Plateau. The only part of the state I would say is boring is the Great Lakes plaine
PA is beautiful as well. But lacks the diversity. PA basically has 3 land types: low terrain around SE PA, the Appalachian Plateau with its steep hills, valleys, rivers, and small lakes and then the Great Lakes region around Erie. Pretty much everything you can find in PA you can find in NY. PA had little in the way of boring land, but it also lacks the soaring peaks or the vast water of NYS.
Climate: Subjective and varies by region, but on average PA is slightly warmer and doesn't have the lake effect snow to the same extent.
Culture/Politics: NYC is more cosmopolitan than Philly. But, they seem similar with the deep blue coastal big city v the purple rest of state divide. The big difference is the ratios are reversed. Metro NYC is 2/3 of the state pop vs only 1/3 for Philly. Turns one from light blue/purple to deep blue, despite similar underpinning.
Cities: tend to agree with the analysis above. NYC is levels above Philly, Pitt is solidly above Buffalo, 3-5 are subjective, but probably lean slightly in NYSs favor. Beyond that there are a mix of good and bad smaller cities. Saratoga, Lancaster, Ithaca, State College are all interesting cities
Location: most of PA is better situated with respect to the East Coast beaches and big cities. Vast parts of Upstate NY feel pretty remote.
Economy: NY solely due to NYC, other areas are mix of solid (Philly, Albany, college towns, NYC spillover towns) to down right depressed rust belt towns.
NY has NYC - PA has Philly
NY has the Atlantic Ocean - PA has no ocean frontage
NY has the Adirondacks - PA has the Poconos
NY has the Statue of Liberty - PA has the Rocky Statue
NY has hundreds of miles of frontage on two Great Lakes - PA has a tens of miles of frontage on one Great Lake
NY has three separate sections of the 167ft single tier Niagara Falls - PA has the 150ft three-tiered Raymondskill Falls
NY has the Hudson River - PA has the Delaware River
NY has Long Island with the Hamptons and great beaches - PA has Three Mile Island with a nuke plant
actually there is an island a little north of TMI that has a small replica of the statue of liberty on it
PA has many great aspects but on the whole think NYS is prettier and more diverse
PA lacks a beachfront and nothing matches the finger lakes and Adirondacks IMHO
Amish country
Better 2nd city
DE water gap
PA Grand Canyon
State College is probably a better land grant state university and town than comparators in NYS
Sesame Place (yes am reaching)
I really like both states but NYS is really a beautiful state (PA is too but edge NYS), not many in the US can compare quite honestly
I really like both states but NYS is really a beautiful state (PA is too but edge NYS), not many in the US can compare quite honestly
I think what's nice about both NY and PA, aside from facetious stereotypes, is that residents of both states (at least broadly speaking) seem to have an ingrained kinship and appreciation for the other state, for cultural, recreation, or other aspects.
They both have shared out-sized roles in American history, and despite being slower growing than the rest of the US, still have immense political and economic influence.
I've personally always thought of NY as PA's "big brother." One that it both literally and figuratively looks up to.
Always figured NY, NJ, and PA should probably function as one state.
If these states were out West, they probably are. To put this into perspective, NY is 30th in land size, PA is 32nd in land size and NJ is 46th in land size. Mississippi is actually 31st in land size and has only a fraction of the people these states have. So, it is remarkable how many people live in those 3 states.
I grew up in Upstate NY and now live in Philadelphia. Like many have said, in some ways this is not a fair comparison as NY has many things "bigger and better" than what PA can match. However, there are some unsung advantages to living in Pennsylvania over New York:
1) Living in Philadelphia, I personally get everything out of big city living that I'd want, at a fraction of the price of NYC --- or any of the other Northeastern cities in the Bos-Wash megalopolis for that matter. It has all the nightlife, cultural attractions, transit, academic institutions, etc. that I'd ever want, but again, the cost to live here is incredibly reasonable. As a teacher, I actually have ambition to buy a home here in Philly. A show in New York or protest in DC that I hope to attend? Both a bus/train ride away. Of course New York does it bigger. I personally think on a bang-for-your-buck comparison, Philly beats NYC for any middle class person.
Onto the state as a whole:
2) Speaking of proximity: PA has better accessibility to the country. It's the Keystone state! As the southern most Northern state, PA has reasonable access to all of the northeast, great lakes region, and upper south.
3) Climate: A relatively small difference of course, but having grown up in Upstate NY, there is a noticeable positive difference in the months of November-April. Fall lasts longer, winter is milder but still "true", and there is a real spring! There are definitely far more gross humid days here in the summer. But this isn't Houston by any means. As a gardener, I love the longer growing season.
4) Politics: As a progressive, I actually much prefer living in a swing state where there is even more need for involvement and political action. New York is too comfortably blue, in an "establishment, liberal elite" sorta way.
New York will always be home. I grew up in the Finger Lakes and there is no matching that in PA. I love both states, and think they are two of the stars in the union!
I grew up in Upstate NY and now live in Philadelphia. Like many have said, in some ways this is not a fair comparison as NY has many things "bigger and better" than what PA can match. However, there are some unsung advantages to living in Pennsylvania over New York:
1) Living in Philadelphia, I personally get everything out of big city living that I'd want, at a fraction of the price of NYC --- or any of the other Northeastern cities in the Bos-Wash megalopolis for that matter. It has all the nightlife, cultural attractions, transit, academic institutions, etc. that I'd ever want, but again, the cost to live here is incredibly reasonable. As a teacher, I actually have ambition to buy a home here in Philly. A show in New York or protest in DC that I hope to attend? Both a bus/train ride away. Of course New York does it bigger. I personally think on a bang-for-your-buck comparison, Philly beats NYC for any middle class person.
Onto the state as a whole:
2) Speaking of proximity: PA has better accessibility to the country. It's the Keystone state! As the southern most Northern state, PA has reasonable access to all of the northeast, great lakes region, and upper south.
3) Climate: A relatively small difference of course, but having grown up in Upstate NY, there is a noticeable positive difference in the months of November-April. Fall lasts longer, winter is milder but still "true", and there is a real spring! There are definitely far more gross humid days here in the summer. But this isn't Houston by any means. As a gardener, I love the longer growing season.
4) Politics: As a progressive, I actually much prefer living in a swing state where there is even more need for involvement and political action. New York is too comfortably blue, in an "establishment, liberal elite" sorta way.
New York will always be home. I grew up in the Finger Lakes and there is no matching that in PA. I love both states, and think they are two of the stars in the union!
I like NY about 1000 times more than PA but everyone has their reasons why they like and dislike a state.
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. In all seriousness though, Pennsylvania has a ton to offer and is a fine neighbor that compliments the northeast quite well. Depending on your lifestyle and interests, it'll be easy to fall in love with Pennsylvania over New York and it definitely beats the latter in many ways.
