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FYI you are using city stats which as always is tricky with Jacksonville. Because the city limits are so wide Jax's city stats cover over 50% of the metro, whereas Richmond's makes up 18% of its metro. Very generally speaking, within Jax's city limits you include pretty much all the high crime parts of town, poorer areas, and overall less desirable areas. Almost everything outside the city limits, which includes all the beaches, some of the fastest growing zip codes in the state, and the top 2 school districts in the state, are the most desirable areas for many people. So Jax city stats include almost all the statistically poor areas without including some of the best. This also obviously skews the commute data as well...commute times are much shorter if you look at Jax's core old city and don't include all the far-flung suburbs that are still situated within the city limits. Actually, while mass transit infrastructure sucks in Jax, one of its huge advantages (and seemingly is true of most southern cities) is the road system and maintenance. Road conditions are sooo much better down here cause we spend so much on it, which I actually wish wasn't the case but since it is might as well point it out.
I am curious what is an $896 rental like in Richmond? And what price point are you looking at for a luxury 1-bedroom condo with a view?
Richmond seems like a bad place to invest in real estate lol, if the housing costs are higher and the rents are lower. Good place to be a renter.
FYI you are using city stats which as always is tricky with Jacksonville. Because the city limits are so wide Jax's city stats cover over 50% of the metro, whereas Richmond's makes up 18% of its metro. Very generally speaking, within Jax's city limits you include pretty much all the high crime parts of town, poorer areas, and overall less desirable areas. Almost everything outside the city limits, which includes all the beaches, some of the fastest growing zip codes in the state, and the top 2 school districts in the state, are the most desirable areas for many people. So Jax city stats include almost all the statistically poor areas without including some of the best. This also obviously skews the commute data as well...commute times are much shorter if you look at Jax's core old city and don't include all the far-flung suburbs that are still situated within the city limits. Actually, while mass transit infrastructure sucks in Jax, one of its huge advantages (and seemingly is true of most southern cities) is the road system and maintenance. Road conditions are sooo much better down here cause we spend so much on it, which I actually wish wasn't the case but since it is might as well point it out.
My uncle bought a house here in 1995 for $78,000. The house is now worth $180,000 and will probably be worth more if he waits until the neighborhood fully gentrifies.
This would actually affect Richmond more because Virginia's cities are independent of the counties. The money in Richmond is largely in Western Henrico county and Midlothian not Richmond city. If I were to include as large an area for Richmond as the city limits of Jacksonville then the numbers would be even more in favor of Richmond. Nearly all of the Richmond metro's poor and high crime areas are within the city limits. Jacksonville is 875sq mi compared to Richmond's 62.5sq mi. How many more miles should we give Jacksonville in order to skew the numbers even further? The only areas not included in the city limits are the beaches. Richmond's most wealthy areas and largest retail centers are all outside of the city limits. I think that the comparison is more than fair for Jacksonville
Economy: Jacksonville. Florida is booming again.
Cost of Living: Jacksonville. It is tough to beat most of Florida in cost of living comparisons.
Housing: Jacksonville. Hands down.
Education: Richmond. Beating Florida when it comes to education is like being the skinniest kid at fat camp though...
Culture: Jacksonville.
Amenities: How do you compare amenities in 2 first-world, US cities? You can have what you want in either place.
Scenery: Jacksonville. Palm trees and water.
Transportation: Unsure. Jacksonville? Jacksonville.
Daytrips/Weekend Trips: Jacksonville. You can explore up to Savannah or down to Daytona or St Augustine.
Dining: Unsure. I'll give it to Richmond since Jacksonville is taking every other category.
Shopping: Who cares? Amazon.com delivers to my door...
Sports: Neither has great teams.
Attractions: Jacksonville.
Location: Jacksonville. It is in coastal Florida.
Nature: Jacksonville. It is close to the beach.
Quality-of-Life: Jacksonville. See above.
My uncle bought a house here in 1995 for $78,000. The house is now worth $180,000 and will probably be worth more if he waits until the neighborhood fully gentrifies.
Yeah, but pretty much every region in the country is good for capital investment and flipping if you invest in the right neighborhoods or projects. I was referring to cash flow investing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpier015
This would actually affect Richmond more because Virginia's cities are independent of the counties. The money in Richmond is largely in Western Henrico county and Midlothian not Richmond city. If I were to include as large an area for Richmond as the city limits of Jacksonville then the numbers would be even more in favor of Richmond. Nearly all of the Richmond metro's poor and high crime areas are within the city limits. Jacksonville is 875sq mi compared to Richmond's 62.5sq mi. How many more miles should we give Jacksonville in order to skew the numbers even further? The only areas not included in the city limits are the beaches. Richmond's most wealthy areas and largest retail centers are all outside of the city limits. I think that the comparison is more than fair for Jacksonville
My point is that MSA to MSA comparison would be the most appropriate. And you are totally right, if Richmond's city limits comprise of primarily poor and high crime areas then it skews in the other direction as well. I was under the assumption there were good areas within Richmond's core. I was speaking to the fact that Jax's city limits essentially include ALL depressed areas of the Jax metro. You can find pockets of rural areas that are not thriving economically, but in regards to the suburban fringes it is entirely wealthy-middle class. Jax epitomized white flight and to this day, families that relocate to the area are urged to seek the much better school systems of every single county outside of Jax. But this could swing both ways as you said...if the bad areas are all concentrated within Richmond city limits that will hurt its numbers unfairly.
Anyway, I'm not attacking Richmond at all. I already said that outside of the coastal/sunshine/FL vibe, Richmond would take this one on its merits. And for some folks, the FL connection is a negative anyhow.
btw you didnt answer my question which I really want to know:
Quote:
I am curious what is an $896 rental like in Richmond? And what price point are you looking at for a luxury 1-bedroom condo with a view?
Yeah, but pretty much every region in the country is good for capital investment and flipping if you invest in the right neighborhoods or projects. I was referring to cash flow investing.
My point is that MSA to MSA comparison would be the most appropriate. And you are totally right, if Richmond's city limits comprise of primarily poor and high crime areas then it skews in the other direction as well. I was under the assumption there were good areas within Richmond's core. I was speaking to the fact that Jax's city limits essentially include ALL depressed areas of the Jax metro. You can find pockets of rural areas that are not thriving economically, but in regards to the suburban fringes it is entirely wealthy-middle class. Jax epitomized white flight and to this day, families that relocate to the area are urged to seek the much better school systems of every single county outside of Jax. But this could swing both ways as you said...if the bad areas are all concentrated within Richmond city limits that will hurt its numbers unfairly.
Anyway, I'm not attacking Richmond at all. I already said that outside of the coastal/sunshine/FL vibe, Richmond would take this one on its merits. And for some folks, the FL connection is a negative anyhow.
btw you didnt answer my question which I really want to know:
Richmond is in the exact same predicament. The public schools are not great so the majority of families new to the area are encouraged to move outside of the city. Also, with the city being independent of the county it has been hard to get much needed cooperation between the two on much needed amenities such as public transit ect. The city does have nice areas but they are mostly on the western portion of the city where as the North and Southside have both really bad areas and really nice areas. The eastern portion of the city is almost entirely low income, high crime, with the exception of one historic neighborhood.
You can find decent rentals at that price but a lot of them would be in an up and coming neighborhood that is either just beginning to gentrify or that is on the cusps of gentrification. In all honesty, $1000-$1100 is what you would really want to be able to spend in order to be in a close in, safe and popular neighborhood. There are however a good amount of affordable lofts throughout the city in the $800-$1000 range.
Edit: After reviewing zillow, it appears that at the moment you can actually rent in some pretty popular areas such as the boulevard and the Fan in the $800 range. The rentals in those areas, in that price frame, are not up to date on the inside, however.
Economy: Jacksonville. Florida is booming again.
Cost of Living: Jacksonville. It is tough to beat most of Florida in cost of living comparisons.
Housing: Jacksonville. Hands down.
Education: Richmond. Beating Florida when it comes to education is like being the skinniest kid at fat camp though...
Culture: Jacksonville.
Amenities: How do you compare amenities in 2 first-world, US cities? You can have what you want in either place.
Scenery: Jacksonville. Palm trees and water.
Transportation: Unsure. Jacksonville? Jacksonville.
Daytrips/Weekend Trips: Jacksonville. You can explore up to Savannah or down to Daytona or St Augustine.
Dining: Unsure. I'll give it to Richmond since Jacksonville is taking every other category.
Shopping: Who cares? Amazon.com delivers to my door...
Sports: Neither has great teams.
Attractions: Jacksonville.
Location: Jacksonville. It is in coastal Florida.
Nature: Jacksonville. It is close to the beach.
Quality-of-Life: Jacksonville. See above.
True when comparing it to New York and California, but when you look at the COL to Salary ratio, it's pretty bad in most of Florida especially Miami area.
Richmond receives a lot of hype here...some well deserved, some not. That said, this is no contest. Only reason to choose Jax are beach towns and weather. Richmond is a superior city culturally and historically. Jax has some areas showing life, such as San Marco, but downtown Jax is one of the deadest I have seen in recent years. Jax just feels like there are racial issues.
You can find decent rentals at that price but a lot of them would be in an up and coming neighborhood that is either just beginning to gentrify or that is on the cusps of gentrification. In all honesty, $1000-$1100 is what you would really want to be able to spend in order to be in a close in, safe and popular neighborhood. There are however a good amount of affordable lofts throughout the city in the $800-$1000 range.
Edit: After reviewing zillow, it appears that at the moment you can actually rent in some pretty popular areas such as the boulevard and the Fan in the $800 range. The rentals in those areas, in that price frame, are not up to date on the inside, however.
Thanks. Good to know...getting a price range always helps me to imagine what it would be like to live/spend some extended time there.
Economy: Jacksonville. Florida is booming again.
Cost of Living: Jacksonville. It is tough to beat most of Florida in cost of living comparisons.
Housing: Jacksonville. Hands down.
Education: Richmond. Beating Florida when it comes to education is like being the skinniest kid at fat camp though...
Culture: Jacksonville.
Amenities: How do you compare amenities in 2 first-world, US cities? You can have what you want in either place.
Scenery: Jacksonville. Palm trees and water.
Transportation: Unsure. Jacksonville? Jacksonville.
Daytrips/Weekend Trips: Jacksonville. You can explore up to Savannah or down to Daytona or St Augustine.
Dining: Unsure. I'll give it to Richmond since Jacksonville is taking every other category.
Shopping: Who cares? Amazon.com delivers to my door...
Sports: Neither has great teams.
Attractions: Jacksonville.
Location: Jacksonville. It is in coastal Florida.
Nature: Jacksonville. It is close to the beach.
Quality-of-Life: Jacksonville. See above.
Economy: Stats say Richmond, with higher median income, and GDP in metro.
Cost of Living: Not a huge difference, but Jacksonville does seem cheaper.
Housing: Hard to say. Jacksonville has more new properties, with Richmond being more mixed, and having more options for urban living and historic properties.
Education: Richmond.
Culture: How are we talking? Like, the culture of the place? That is subjective? Arts/Culture? Not positive, but Richmond would seem to have more here.
Amenities: Different for each, depends on which you value
Scenery: Depends on taste. Jacksonville is likely more scenic for many immediately around it, due to proximity to Atlantic. However, Richmond has a very scenic river (as Jax does too), and also a fair amount of topography, and were talking deciduous vs. subtropical vegetation, which is a personal preference. Personally, I'm more of a topography/mountains guy, and so even though it's not immediately in Richmond area, the proximity to the Shenandoah Mountains (90 minutes) wins out for me.
Transportation: Honestly Not Sure
Daytrips/Weekend Trips: Jacksonville isn't bad here, with weekend/day trips to scenic portions of the Florida Trail (Suwannee River), Historic Savannah, and Disney a real possibility. That being said though, Richmond wins here for me, with weekend/day trips to a major Alpha city (DC) and it's amenities, the Shenandoah Mountains, as well as VA Beach/the Atlantic, and other places like Charlottesville/Wine Country all in the cards. More variety IMO.
Dining: Plenty everywhere. I'll use this to talk about climate. I like that Jacksonville gets cooler than other FL cities during winter (but still quite comfortable). But, I REALLY LIKE that Richmond has a 4 season climate. Sure, summer is hot, but its not that long, and it balances things out. Plus, I can sneak away to the mountains during the summer to cool off, and during the winter to ski/snowshoe/etc.
Shopping: Comparable.
Sports: This one is interesting. Jacksonville has pro sports (NFL) right in town, while Richmond doesn't. Both have a few minor league teams in town, as well as smaller college teams as well. Bigger college sports 60 minutes from Richmond (UVA) and 90 minutes from Jacksonville. However, Richmond's advantage lies in the fact that all of the Big 5 are in DC, which again is 2 hours or less from Richmond, on any given night. Jacksonville is 2 hours or so from Orlando (NBA, MLS), but for those wanting to see NHL or MLB, is nearly a 4 hour or longer trip.
Attractions: Jacksonville, not that it has nothing to see, but it's main attraction, would be it's proximity to beaches. But in terms of other things to see/do around the city, neighborhoods, museums, historic sites, etc., it's almost certainly Richmond.
Location: Jacksonville is located well into the southeast coastal plain. It does have some awesome historical towns nearby, and is very close to the beach, and reasonably close to Disney. But, Richmond has more diversity in it's location. In less than 2 hours, you can be in the powerful cities of the Urban NE (DC), in a swamp, with some gators, cypress, etc. (Great Dismal) or in a deep south BBQ town, or at any mixture of coastal areas (nautical feel/Navy of Norfolk, fishing or kayaking in Chesapeake Bay, in a touristy beach town like VA Beach, or even in the VA section of the OBX), you can be at a Busch Gardens or a Six Flags, or you can be in the most esteemed wine region in the Eastern US, any number of historical towns, or hiking in the Shenandoahs... Endless options.
Honestly, I have nothing against Jacksonville, in fact, I think it has a number of things going for it. Based on my tastes, and a combination of factors I put together, I think that I'd like living there more than any other city in Florida. That being said, Richmond just has a number of things that really appeal to me that can't be ignored. The 4 season climate, the location, the endless array of historic attractions and urban neighborhoods, the opportunity to go hike in the Shenandoahs almost any free day I want... Definitely a great spot.
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