Columbus vs St. Louis (ranking, moving, raise, safe)
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-The crime rate in Columbus has gone up(not just murder rate) to the point where it's not that much better than STL. It's not nearly as good as NYC's, LA's or even Austin's
-For a city with 1 million in its proper, it doesn't even have Amtrak let alone any type of rail. Meanwhile STL has 2 Metrolink lines(despite its problems) and Amtrak along with regular bus service. Plus bus fares are higher in Columbus if you use it during rush hours
-The economy in terms of job openings, industry, etc., is it really easier to get a job in Columbus vs STL, especially in blue collar work?
-Housing: Found out that's it's harder to find a private landlord in Columbus than STL. Plus a vast majority of their apts don't offer free heat/hot water. STL, like Chicago, doesn't have this much of a problem And don't get me started on the rent
-Sports: Meh. It's even. StL with the pros and CLB with collegiate.
The crime rate has not gone up in Columbus. It had a bad year for murder 2 years ago during the height of the opioid epidemic, but is running much lower now. Even during that one bad year, most crimes otherwise were near 30+ year lows.
I've never seen it done when ordering a single bagel. You can request it though at the Saint Louis Bread Company / Bread Co (Panera's original and still locally used name) when you order a large to go box for work and stuff. That way people are just taking pieces here and there of the variety of bagels and dipping / smearing them with cream cheese.
Oh it's specifically meant for when sharing, not for personal consumption? This makes me feel much better now. As a Jew, I was really offended over their treatment of bagels. This makes much more sense.
Oh it's specifically meant for when sharing, not for personal consumption? This makes me feel much better now. As a Jew, I was really offended over their treatment of bagels. This makes much more sense.
Yeah, I've only seen it in circumstances like in the guy's original tweet that started this whole thing. He took a couple of boxes of bagels to work. That way you don't have your coworkers cutting up the regular halves into even smaller pieces. An article I read after this whole ridiculous thing started stated it was popular with that, parents trying to get smaller pieces for their kids, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24
Would love to visit St Louis. It's a glaring omission of mine. It looks like a much more interesting place.
It's a great place to visit. Make sure to not stick to downtown only though, and to avoid the month of July. Being boiled alive in our humidity is no fun.
Would love to visit St Louis. It's a glaring omission of mine. It looks like a much more interesting place.
As already pointed out earlier, there are plenty of things to do downtown (Arch, Ball Park area, City Garden, Union Station) but not the core of STL. Its the neighborhoods. Couple to check out:
I can understand the votes for Columbus, because Columbus has a small but clean and pretty downtown (mainly one street) that flows seamlessly into the Ohio State area with several miles of nice-looking apartment buildings with shops and restaurants.
Columbus does have high-crime areas but they seem to be on the other side of town from where the action is.
Columbus has three or four nice suburbs, although they aren't amazing by any stretch.
St Louis as everyone has stated seems to have more noticeably scary bad areas, and the downtown and surrounding areas are still a bit sketchy. That said, St. Louis' in-town areas as you go from downtown past St Louis University and then to CWE and Wash U and the Loop, have way more character than Columbus. St Louis also has the south side with numerous different walkable urban districts. There's an excitement that St. Louis feels like a real city.
But what I really liked about St Louis is that you cross into beautifully maintained suburbs right when you get into the 1920's era neighborhoods such as Clayton, with elegant Tudor and Colonial homes. Everything from Clayton to Ladue and on to Chesterfield is quite beautiful. Suburbs in most cities seem to be covered in sprawl, but somehow St. Louis built a huge patchwork of individual suburban towns that feels clean, well-planned, and livable.
In my last drive through St Louis, I drove though the outer loop interstate which apparently was mostly Chesterfield. This area which goes on for at least 20 miles it seemed, was all rolling hills and forests, which fancy glass buildings poking out from the trees along the interstate, housing apparently financial services firms of all kinds. Suburban St. Louis driving through along the interstate looks similar to suburban Atlanta...hilly, forested, modern, and affluent.
While I like the clean feeling of Columbus, I think to live I'd prefer the very clean and prettier St Louis suburbs. And I think I'd prefer that St Louis doesn't revolve around a single university.
I read that the Missouri legislature is trying to take over St Louis police. If they succeed and manage to dramatically increase safety in St. Louis city, there will be no stopping this city because it has every other asset already in place.
From the streetviewing I've done Columbus still looks like "downtown, the Short North, German Village, maybe 1 or 2 other interesting areas, and then miles and miles of average sprawl". St. Louis is a city of neighborhoods, many of them interesting and vibrant. Much more interesting suburbs too (been to Alton, Belleville, and Granite City on the IL side and they all had a unique feel, without even exploring the MO suburbs much).
I can see Columbus being better from a social perspective because it's a younger, growing city. But if I picked there to move, it'd be a resigned "well, I guess this makes sense" decision, not an excited one.
St Louis as everyone has stated seems to have more noticeably scary bad areas, and the downtown and surrounding areas are still a bit sketchy. That said, St. Louis' in-town areas as you go from downtown past St Louis University and then to CWE and Wash U and the Loop, have way more character than Columbus. St Louis also has the south side with numerous different walkable urban districts. There's an excitement that St. Louis feels like a real city.
But what I really liked about St Louis is that you cross into beautifully maintained suburbs right when you get into the 1920's era neighborhoods such as Clayton, with elegant Tudor and Colonial homes. Everything from Clayton to Ladue and on to Chesterfield is quite beautiful. Suburbs in most cities seem to be covered in sprawl, but somehow St. Louis built a huge patchwork of individual suburban towns that feels clean, well-planned, and livable.
In my last drive through St Louis, I drove though the outer loop interstate which apparently was mostly Chesterfield. This area which goes on for at least 20 miles it seemed, was all rolling hills and forests, which fancy glass buildings poking out from the trees along the interstate, housing apparently financial services firms of all kinds. Suburban St. Louis driving through along the interstate looks similar to suburban Atlanta...hilly, forested, modern, and affluent.
While I like the clean feeling of Columbus, I think to live I'd prefer the very clean and prettier St Louis suburbs. And I think I'd prefer that St Louis doesn't revolve around a single university.
I read that the Missouri legislature is trying to take over St Louis police. If they succeed and manage to dramatically increase safety in St. Louis city, there will be no stopping this city because it has every other asset already in place.
I hope St. Louis does rebound; it has very strong bones and many attractive neighborhoods in both the city and its suburbs.
But I'm not so certain that a state takeover of the St. Louis Police Department will make much of a difference, given that the state has run the police department in Kansas City, on the other side of the state, since the Boss Tom Pendergast years or thereabouts. KC, which has done better than St. Louis of late largely because it could annex its (Missouri-side only) suburban growth while St. Louis couldn't, has also had to struggle with surging crime over the last decade or so.
So I noticed that Columbus Ohio has been getting some attention on here lately, due to its surprisingly fast growing population. I figured why not put it up against a more traditional older mid-western city. Which do you think is the best overall? Here's some criteria to consider, though also open to other criteria.
1. Downtown
2. Walk ability
3. Architecture
4. Friendliness
5. Safety
6. Climate
7. Economy
8. Transportation (car and public)
9. Scenery
10. Suburbs
11. Recreational Activities
12. Bars/Restaurants
13. Where would you rather live?
So since I'm chiming in late:
Downtown: St. Louis. More substantial, more interesting architecturally. Don't know whether or not it dies at 5 as Columbus' does (the action there takes place just outside the inner beltway), but Laclede's Landing is located right next to it, and it does have a residential population, so probably not.
Walkability: Tie. Both have walkable entertainment/shopping districts outside downtown, though one of St. Louis' straddles the border with one of its nicer close-in suburbs.
Architecture: St. Louis. I'm a fan of Ohio's Federal-style state capitol building, but that's one of the few buildings in Columbus I'd consider architecturally distinguished. No other structures in downtown Columbus reach the level of Louis Sullivan's Wainwright Building or Eero Saarinen's Gateway Arch — and the photo of the Arch rising above the Old St. Louis County Courthouse downtown is one of the city's iconic shots.
Friendliness: No opinion. I had relatives who lived in Edwardsville, Ill., so may be a little biased towards St. Louis here, however.
Safety: Columbus, for reasons others have gone into on this thread.
Climate: St. Louis, by a hair. But the two cities are pretty similar.
Economy: Columbus seems to have held onto its big hometown HQs better than St. Louis has. But St. Louis has the bigger economy overall, which makes some sense, as it's a little bigger metro than Columbus, whose actual Missouri peer is Kansas City.
Transportation (car and public): St. Louis on both scores. Its freeways are some of the least congested in the country, and it also has the MetroLink light metro system.
Scenery: St. Louis sits in an actual river valley, while Columbus strikes me as a little flatter overall than metro St. Louis does. Much of the area around St. Louis also looks to me to be a bit more forested. And the head of the Lake of the Ozarks is about an hour away from downtown.
Suburbs: Columbus has some very nice ones east of the city, but I'd say that St. Louis' western suburbs, especially University City, Clayton, Ladue and their neighbors, are collectively a level or two above them.
Recreational activities: Since I haven't explored what's available around Columbus, I'm not going to declare a winner here, but I will note again that the Ozarks are pretty convenient to St. Louis.
Bars/restuarants: Columbus, quite likely because The* Ohio State University is right in the middle of the city and animates the Short North more than Washington University does the Delmar Loop. But St. Louis has long struck me as a city whose nightlife is on the quiet side, perhaps also because I grew up in KC, which has gotten much better in that score since getting back in touch with its inner Boss Tom.
*You all did hear that OSU applied for a trademark for the word "The," right?
Where would I rather live? Well, to quote the epitaph W.C. Fields wanted on his grave, "On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia." But if I had to choose one of these two, I'd choose St. Louis, quieter nightlife notwithstanding. Even though its north side has hollowed out, it remains a more substantial city than Columbus, IMO, thanks largely to its historical legacy.
Downtown: St. Louis. More substantial, more interesting architecturally. Don't know whether or not it dies at 5 as Columbus' does (the action there takes place just outside the inner beltway), but Laclede's Landing is located right next to it, and it does have a residential population, so probably not.
Walkability: Tie. Both have walkable entertainment/shopping districts outside downtown, though one of St. Louis' straddles the border with one of its nicer close-in suburbs.
Architecture: St. Louis. I'm a fan of Ohio's Federal-style state capitol building, but that's one of the few buildings in Columbus I'd consider architecturally distinguished. No other structures in downtown Columbus reach the level of Louis Sullivan's Wainwright Building or Eero Saarinen's Gateway Arch — and the photo of the Arch rising above the Old St. Louis County Courthouse downtown is one of the city's iconic shots.
Friendliness: No opinion. I had relatives who lived in Edwardsville, Ill., so may be a little biased towards St. Louis here, however.
Safety: Columbus, for reasons others have gone into on this thread.
Climate: St. Louis, by a hair. But the two cities are pretty similar.
Economy: Columbus seems to have held onto its big hometown HQs better than St. Louis has. But St. Louis has the bigger economy overall, which makes some sense, as it's a little bigger metro than Columbus, whose actual Missouri peer is Kansas City.
Transportation (car and public): St. Louis on both scores. Its freeways are some of the least congested in the country, and it also has the MetroLink light metro system.
Scenery: St. Louis sits in an actual river valley, while Columbus strikes me as a little flatter overall than metro St. Louis does. Much of the area around St. Louis also looks to me to be a bit more forested. And the head of the Lake of the Ozarks is about an hour away from downtown.
Suburbs: Columbus has some very nice ones east of the city, but I'd say that St. Louis' western suburbs, especially University City, Clayton, Ladue and their neighbors, are collectively a level or two above them.
Recreational activities: Since I haven't explored what's available around Columbus, I'm not going to declare a winner here, but I will note again that the Ozarks are pretty convenient to St. Louis.
Bars/restuarants: Columbus, quite likely because The* Ohio State University is right in the middle of the city and animates the Short North more than Washington University does the Delmar Loop. But St. Louis has long struck me as a city whose nightlife is on the quiet side, perhaps also because I grew up in KC, which has gotten much better in that score since getting back in touch with its inner Boss Tom.
*You all did hear that OSU applied for a trademark for the word "The," right?
Where would I rather live? Well, to quote the epitaph W.C. Fields wanted on his grave, "On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia." But if I had to choose one of these two, I'd choose St. Louis, quieter nightlife notwithstanding. Even though its north side has hollowed out, it remains a more substantial city than Columbus, IMO, thanks largely to its historical legacy.
Speaking of St. Louis' north side, I always did want to try Crown Candy Kitchen. But I still haven't yet made it there. Hopefully one day. It strikes me as one of those parts of a city(a la Chicago's west and south side), where I imagine there are some nice historic areas here and there when it comes to architecture. Even if with a few exceptions, a lot of St. Louis' north side has hollowed out today.
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