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Downtown-Pittsburgh by far
Economy-Pittsburgh, both now and historically
Walkability-Close but giving it to Pittsburgh for great urban parks, central riverfront, incredible neighborhoods
Climate-I prefer Portland's climate
Scenery-Pittsburgh. Portland is beautiful, but it can't compete with Pittsburgh's dramatic vistas
Suburbs-Tie
Architecture-Pittsburgh
Bars/Restaurants-hard to say. Tie.
Transportation-Portland. Portland is maybe the top dog amongst its peers. Pittsburgh has a great system, but is not competing with MAX Rail right now.
Recreational activities-Pittsburgh for variety, makes better use of its rivers.
Affordability-Pittsburgh by a long shot. The mayor tweeted out recently a link to all the Pittsburgh city houses, most move in ready, all under $135K
Though, in many ways, these cities are very similar, I give this to Pittsburgh by a wide margin.
Portland, not unlike Austin, likes to tell you how hip and weird it is. Pittsburgh doesn't need to promote this, go there and it speaks for itself-90 distinct urban neighborhoods, Gothic skyscrapers, Warhol museum, mattress factory, Carnegie, incline rail, film and tv industry, pens, steelers, pirates...in terms of amenities/institutions, Pittsburgh is way closer to Seattle or San Francisco than Portland.
This is pretty much what I think of the comparison, too. I'd also add that Pittsburgh is a pretty idiosyncratic city and that both of these cities are pretty great.
I'm not going to involve myself heavily in this discussion because I've never been to Portland. But on the transit question, it's important to note a higher percentage of Pittsburgh residents use transit than Portland - 17.1% versus 12.1%. Thus while you could make qualitative arguments that Portland has better transit, Pittsburgh's transit is more utilized.
Of course, there are two caveats here:
1. Portland has a higher percentage of cyclists and people working from home (although less commuters who walk) which means the percentage driving is almost the same (57.8% versus 56%)
2. Portland is over twice as big as Pittsburgh, and has captured a lot more of the suburban part of the metro. A "Pittsburgh sized" lump of the core of Portland would probably have higher transit utilization than Pittsburgh.
Having lived in both the slight edge goes to Portland. BUT I've always said if you took Portland & put Pittsburgh's people (or well my friends anyway) in the city it'd be perfect. Portland's people can make it difficult to live there sometimes. In any case both are in my top 10.
Here's what I said on the Portland vs Denver thread. It applies to Pittsburgh too. Definitely Pittsburgh. People have their priorities straighter, and they have more sense.
I'm not going to involve myself heavily in this discussion because I've never been to Portland. But on the transit question, it's important to note a higher percentage of Pittsburgh residents use transit than Portland - 17.1% versus 12.1%. Thus while you could make qualitative arguments that Portland has better transit, Pittsburgh's transit is more utilized.
Of course, there are two caveats here:
1. Portland has a higher percentage of cyclists and people working from home (although less commuters who walk) which means the percentage driving is almost the same (57.8% versus 56%)
2. Portland is over twice as big as Pittsburgh, and has captured a lot more of the suburban part of the metro. A "Pittsburgh sized" lump of the core of Portland would probably have higher transit utilization than Pittsburgh.
Good points.
Pittsburgh also had 11.1% walking commuters vs. 6.0% for Portland.
A caveat to that is that Pittsburgh seems to have way more college students especially in percentage terms. Carnegie Mellon, Pitt, and Duquesne have over 50,000 students in very central campuses (I don't know how many actually live within city limits). Portland State has 28,000 and it goes quickly down from there.
These seem like two CD darling cities that generally do well in polls. They have some similarities but also a lot of differences. Overall which do you think is better? Here's some criteria to consider.
1. Downtown
2. Economy
3. Walkability
4. Climaate
5. Scenery
6. Suburbs
7. Architecture
8. Bars/Restaurants
9. Transportation
10. Recreational activities
11. Affordability
12. Where would you rather live?
1. Downtown - Each has its own merits. Tie
2. Economy - Pittsburgh
3. Walkability - Portland slightly.
4. Climate - Portland's milder. If you don't mind the wet it's a no brainer.
5. Scenery - Tie
6. Burbs - Portland. Suburbs in Pgh have largely the same look.
7. Neighborhoods - Pittsburgh easily takes this one.
8. Architecture - Depends on the style you like. Another tie.
9. Bars - Pittsburgh - better concentration & affordable.
10. Restaurants - Portland (unless you're talking good Pizza, which is hard to find in PDX)
11. Transportation - Portland
12. Recreation - Tie. Again depends on your focus.
13. Affordability - Pittsburgh
14. Live - Portland for the city. Pittsburgh for the people. But if you're a minority your ymmv. Generally speaking it isn't such a great place for black folks & if you're Latin you're not going to find much of a community.
Accounting for ties:
Pittsburgh - 9
Portland - 10
However, if your main concerns are COL & quality of people then Pittsburgh wins.
A few other areas you could've included are:
Galleries - Portland
Actual artists - Pittsburgh (Portland sure does like to talk about being artists/in a band/DJs/etc. though!)
Crafting - Portland, or at least it's more visible in the vibe of the city.
Craft Beer/artisanal whatever- Portland
Music - Portland
Pretentious/smug/PC - Portland
Blunt - Pittsburgh
Homeless/Street Kids - Portland
Dating - Pittsburgh if you're a college student otherwise tie.
Although I will say that if you go by the love Pittsburgh gets on CD you're likely to be disappointed, but if you're just looking for a livable & affordable place then you'll do alright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muinteoir
Funny comparison. Someone once told me Pittsburgh is the Portland of the East, but without the ego.
Probably because they read it on the net somewhere. They aren't very similar in ethos. Even hipster types are shunned in the burgh & tucked away in a few select areas. Most cities in the East only have Portland-like neighborhoods, not entire cities that cater to hipster types. Even the cities that seem to have a higher percentage of these types don't have a Portland big feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25
Pittsburgh also had 11.1% walking commuters vs. 6.0% for Portland.
A caveat to that is that Pittsburgh seems to have way more college students especially in percentage terms.
Portland is twice as populated so... From a street level it's close enough to be a wash, but if you go out on a weeknight in the burgh it might be dead whereas Portland has more going on during the week.
Just under a third of Pittsburgh is college students. A lot of the nightlife is geared around them. However, with the general layout of the rivers & "mountains" it carves up the city so many areas are separated from the others (meaning you never really get that overwhelmed by college kids feeling outside of Oakland).
If you're value minded then Pittsburgh is going to win for you all day long with its amenities to cost of living.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton
But on the transit question, it's important to note a higher percentage of Pittsburgh residents use transit than Portland - 17.1% versus 12.1%. Thus while you could make qualitative arguments that Portland has better transit, Pittsburgh's transit is more utilized.
Portland's transit is far better than Pittsburgh's and people have this as a source of pride. Yes, Pittsburgh's is used more as part of daily life, but people are generally more car focused there.
Portland has some remarkable contrasts. It controls sprawl but within those boundaries it's very spread out, with a large areas of ok density but little above that. Office jobs are also spread out. Related to those points, it has nice transit and it's very walkable but the commute share for transit and walking are somewhere in the middle even among peer US cities, and pretty bad by the standards of bigger ones. Biking is the one area where it excels in both quality and actual use.
But I love many things about it anyway. Narrow streets (it falls short of Pittsburgh in this area though), very walkable, lots of areas with (despite density) good small-scale retail streets...
Portland has some remarkable contrasts. It controls sprawl but within those boundaries it's very spread out, with a large areas of ok density but little above that. Office jobs are also spread out. Related to those points, it has nice transit and it's very walkable but the commute share for transit and walking are somewhere in the middle even among peer US cities, and pretty bad by the standards of bigger ones. Biking is the one area where it excels in both quality and actual use.
But I love many things about it anyway. Narrow streets (it falls short of Pittsburgh in this area though), very walkable, lots of areas with (despite density) good small-scale retail streets...
You're right, on the surface these two seem fairly comparable. But on the neighborhoods level, Pittsburgh tends to be either high density or low density in many areas, while Portland is more medium throughout. Some of this is due to Pittsburgh's steep landscape and industrial heritage, and I think just being an older city where development of neighborhoods was more dense by necessity, leading to many rowhouse neighborhoods in Pittsburgh.
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