Which city is becoming less relevant as its population increases? (salaries, beach)
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I don’t care how under the radar it is. Atleast Phoenix has the semiconductor scene going for itself. If we are talking about economies, San Antonio consistently gets outpaced by its Texas peers. Houston and DFW seem to get atleast 2 new F500 companies a year these days. Austin transformed itself into a talent pool for silicon valley companies. San Antonio isn’t obsolete as it has the automotive industry, USAA, the military etc. but it does seem to really get outpaced by it’s peers. And a lot of San Antonio’s economy has been in place for decades. Jacksonville has a similar situation. Those are the answers in my book
It's not really fair to compare San Antonio to Dallas or Houston. They're literally triple the population metro wise.
There's also Oil & Gas, Financial services, IT, Bio tech, Cyber security, a little bit of tech (Rackspace and some stuff downtown) and a big healthcare industry here.
Standalone LV, Gucci, Chanel stores all within the past 3 years or under construction, a $4/sqft apartment tower with an automated garage, multi-million dollar condos plus a $5M Penthouse downtown (which would have been unheard of 5-10 years ago)... the city seems to be getting richer by the year.
The Philadelphia area has remained stagnant, not necessarily declining, but in comparison to Dallas, Houston, and especially Atlanta and Miami, not enough high growth to offset those major metro areas to the point where in the MSA and CSA rankings, all those cities have either surpassed Philadelphia in population and economy. By 2030, it’s possible that Dallas-Fort Worth displaces Philadelphia from the fourth largest to the fifth largest TV market in the US because of high population growth in the Metroplex.
I wouldn't say that this region is "stagnant." One of the things many observers of this region tout as an asset is what they call its "Goldilocks economy" — not too hot, not too cold, but just right.
When times are good, this city doesn't boom. The upside to this is: When times are bad, this city doesn't bust either.
I do, however, need to correct some things in the foregoing.
First, replace "and" with "or" between "population" and "economy." Actually, the construction should be "have surpassed Philadelphia either in population or economy."
And even then, the statement is not true, at least not yet, for both the Atlanta and Miami MSAs still trail Philadelphia on both metrics. IOW, the two you say have "especially" surpassed it are the two that have not. Of the four, only Houston outpaces Philadelphia on both metrics; the DFW Metroplex has a bigger economy but smaller population.
[energy is a boom-and-bust industry; I wouldn't tout that as a great strength, though Houston is indeed the undisputed center of that sector of the economy]
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Philadelphia is a major health and life sciences center and even so, it has to compete with Boston and I believe Boston eventually has the upper hand in that competition as well as bioengineering, higher learning, mass transit, and even sports, Boston just knows how to promote itself much better than Philadelphia while Philadelphia gradually is losing ground on a lot of areas (economy, manufacturing, finance, int’l connectivity, HQs, etc.). Philly is a nice city and even that’s changing too due to the political leadership in the city and state.
Like many Philadelphians, I think you underrate SEPTA here. People like to knock Philadelphia for its skeletal subway system — we got only one-sixth of the rapid transit lines the city approved back in 1913, and we're still trying to build one of those — but the two systems overall are close to each other in overall performance (fewer people ride the rails in Philadelphia than Boston but more ride the buses). I think the MBTA and SEPTA rank 5-6 in terms of total ridership.
As far as sports are concerned, been paying attention this year?
I think that what rankles some of us here may be a matter of semantics. It is true that in relative terms, Philadelphia doesn't rank as high as it used to in the hierarchy of cities, but "less relevant" implies something beyond relative (as opposed to absolute) decline. It seems to me that the city's and region's profile is as high as it's ever been, and it continues to be "relevant" on a number of fronts, economic, social and cultural (that last something that hasn't really been discussed in this thread because it's so difficult to quantify, but I'll give you a few markers to consider: John Coltrane, the Fabulous Philadelphians and "TSOP" (historical) and "Abbott Elementary" (current). Phoenix can't match either of those).
It is true that in relative terms, Philadelphia doesn't rank as high as it used to in the hierarchy of cities, but "less relevant" implies something beyond relative (as opposed to absolute) decline. It seems to me that the city's and region's profile is as high as it's ever been, and it continues to be "relevant" on a number of fronts, economic, social and cultural (that last something that hasn't really been discussed in this thread because it's so difficult to quantify, but I'll give you a few markers to consider: John Coltrane, the Fabulous Philadelphians and "TSOP" (historical) and "Abbott Elementary" (current). Phoenix can't match either of those).
All very well stated. By any objective measure, it's ludicrous to say Philadelphia has become less relevant in past 20 years.
Its approximately six-decade period of decline was the time to make that argument. But after nearly two decades of economic and population growth, it's still solidly a Top 10 metro, with amongst the most diverse and stable metropolitan economies in the US (I don't quite understand putting areas like Houston or Miami on a pedestal in that regard, as the prior poster did--both areas are incredibly economically vulnerable for multiple reasons. Philadelphia is far more well-rounded than both, and a much more sustainable bet for the 21st Century).
What the rest of 2020s brings--or the rest of the century, for that matter--for America's largest cities and metros is probably more uncertain than it's ever been.
But one thing is clear: Philadelphia is clearly more positioned for success than it's been since its mid-20th Century heydeys. Period, full stop.
It's not really fair to compare San Antonio to Dallas or Houston. They're literally triple the population metro wise.
There's also Oil & Gas, Financial services, IT, Bio tech, Cyber security, a little bit of tech (Rackspace and some stuff downtown) and a big healthcare industry here.
Standalone LV, Gucci, Chanel stores all within the past 3 years or under construction, a $4/sqft apartment tower with an automated garage, multi-million dollar condos plus a $5M Penthouse downtown (which would have been unheard of 5-10 years ago)... the city seems to be getting richer by the year.
Literally everything you mentioned is more abundant in the other Texas metros. Except Cyber securities which is 100% San Antonio. In fact, that’s a great example to something San Antonio has been able to evolve itself in which I left out in my previous post. I wonder if SA’s success in cyber securities stems from its military presence and proximity to Austin (the tech town). That mix certainly makes it thrive there. Every other industry as well as the luxury retail has its larger presence elsewhere in the state.
And yes, I agree that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to compare San Antonio to places bigger than it, but nonetheless it fits OP’s description which is basically what he/she was asking about. San Antonio is experiencing population growth while not living up to the importance (at least apparent importance) as the others in its state.
In the end, military and cyber securities is extremely important. Phoenix kind of has a same “forgotten about” situation with what it has for itself. But there’s not really in state competitors that are sucking up the growth. Tucson is definitely growing in both population and recognition but it’s a distant enough second to stay comfortably in the lead in its state.
Literally everything you mentioned is more abundant in the other Texas metros. Except Cyber securities which is 100% San Antonio. In fact, that’s a great example to something San Antonio has been able to evolve itself in which I left out in my previous post. I wonder if SA’s success in cyber securities stems from its military presence and proximity to Austin (the tech town). That mix certainly makes it thrive there. Every other industry as well as the luxury retail has its larger presence elsewhere in the state.
And yes, I agree that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to compare San Antonio to places bigger than it, but nonetheless it fits OP’s description which is basically what he/she was asking about. San Antonio is experiencing population growth while not living up to the importance (at least apparent importance) as the others in its state.
In the end, military and cyber securities is extremely important. Phoenix kind of has a same “forgotten about” situation with what it has for itself. But there’s not really in state competitors that are sucking up the growth. Tucson is definitely growing in both population and recognition but it’s a distant enough second to stay comfortably in the lead in its state.
Probably a lot has to do with military and I think UTSA has put a lot of $ towards it. They have a handful of new buildings going up downtown that are centered around cyber security I think, not 100% positive though.
For sure, Dallas and Houston are gonna have more fashion/luxury amenities. Probably some of the best in the country, San Antonio just holds its own for it's size.
SA just needs some new marketing. A lot of the appealing things about the city are nowhere near downtown. In a lot of ways that's where Austin has a leg up, almost everything is centralized. There's a lot going on that the casual tourist here would have no idea about and that's part of it's problem.
IMO I wouldn't put it in the same category as Jacksonville. I'd say it's more like comparable to San Diego/Orlando (or maybe even Tampa since Orlando probably gets more word of mouth) relative to their states. I'm surprised Sacramento isn't on the original post.
All very well stated. By any objective measure, it's ludicrous to say Philadelphia has become less relevant in past 20 years.
Its approximately six-decade period of decline was the time to make that argument. But after nearly two decades of economic and population growth, it's still solidly a Top 10 metro, with amongst the most diverse and stable metropolitan economies in the US (I don't quite understand putting areas like Houston or Miami on a pedestal in that regard, as the prior poster did--both areas are incredibly economically vulnerable for multiple reasons. Philadelphia is far more well-rounded than both, and a much more sustainable bet for the 21st Century).
What the rest of 2020s brings--or the rest of the century, for that matter--for America's largest cities and metros is probably more uncertain than it's ever been.
But one thing is clear: Philadelphia is clearly more positioned for success than it's been since its mid-20th Century heydeys. Period, full stop.
I’m sorry but there is a pie and one cities growth east into another cities stature.
So if Philly on balance is lagging the national average in Population/Economic growth, it is losing stature.
Minneapolis is an example of a city that’s treading water. Slower growing that Minneapolis? You’re sliding
Like for example London is a much bigger, better, richer city than it was in 1800 but it’s far less relevant than it was 200 years ago
Literally everything you mentioned is more abundant in the other Texas metros. Except Cyber securities which is 100% San Antonio. In fact, that’s a great example to something San Antonio has been able to evolve itself in which I left out in my previous post. I wonder if SA’s success in cyber securities stems from its military presence and proximity to Austin (the tech town). That mix certainly makes it thrive there. Every other industry as well as the luxury retail has its larger presence elsewhere in the state.
And yes, I agree that it doesn’t make a lot of sense to compare San Antonio to places bigger than it, but nonetheless it fits OP’s description which is basically what he/she was asking about. San Antonio is experiencing population growth while not living up to the importance (at least apparent importance) as the others in its state.
In the end, military and cyber securities is extremely important. Phoenix kind of has a same “forgotten about” situation with what it has for itself. But there’s not really in state competitors that are sucking up the growth. Tucson is definitely growing in both population and recognition but it’s a distant enough second to stay comfortably in the lead in its state.
What's the evidence for that? Searching "cyber security" in indeed shows more job opportunities in each of Austin, Dallas, and Houston than in San Antonio. I think San Antonio is way behind these other cities in any kind of white collar occupation.
It's not really fair to compare San Antonio to Dallas or Houston. They're literally triple the population metro wise.
There's also Oil & Gas, Financial services, IT, Bio tech, Cyber security, a little bit of tech (Rackspace and some stuff downtown) and a big healthcare industry here.
Standalone LV, Gucci, Chanel stores all within the past 3 years or under construction, a $4/sqft apartment tower with an automated garage, multi-million dollar condos plus a $5M Penthouse downtown (which would have been unheard of 5-10 years ago)... the city seems to be getting richer by the year.
To me this is like saying, "its not fair to compare me to that salesman who does the same job as I do, his sales are literally triple mine!"
As far as I know, there are no Texas laws preventing San Antonio from participating and excelling in the same industries as Dallas, they just aren't doing it.
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