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Humpty Dumpty said: "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master – that's all." (Looking-Glass 6.63-65)
Humpty Dumpy believes that he can exercise total control over language. Unfortunately, as Alice realizes, if he makes words mean anything he wants, then nobody can understand him. People have to agree on shared definitions and meanings for communication to be possible." https://www.shmoop.com/alice-in-wond...ty-quotes.html
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"Pickleball-Free American"
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Location: St Simons Island, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
The interesting thing is that the most commonly understood definition, which has been longer established, is the political one; the definition relating to built form is a postwar invention used mostly in academic circles and among urban nerds like us.
And I'm not inclined to strike my tentpoles for anywhere else.
You, me and Richard Florida should have a weenie roast sometime.
Annexation of suburbs into the core city limits, really has blurred the meaning so much. I'm sure it was more definite long ago when cities were a lot more compact.
Annexation of suburbs into the core city limits, really has blurred the meaning so much. I'm sure it was more definite long ago when cities were a lot more compact.
Could be. I find it interesting how the meaning changes for other English speaking countries and cities. Never mind Australia where suburb means neighborhood, but in London they seem to use suburb in the same manner as iconographer. And many of the places that they consider suburban or a suburb would be considered urban even by the standards of older, compact US cities. For example what they call terraced houses look similar to row houses and to them that’s suburban.
I've never talked about what a suburb is to anyone else. But Marion County, Indianapolis has 9 townships. Only one is truly urban - center township. The other 8 are a mix of suburban, slight urban, exurban and rural. Some neighborhoods in the outer townships are absolutely suburban in every sense of the word, but they are technically part of Indianapolis so they aren't in a suburb but are suburban.
A suburb is a political district outside (sometimes inside city limits, Glendale, CO) of a core city that can urban or suburban in character.
That make sense to me, I'm not sure about anyone else.
Annexation of suburbs into the core city limits, really has blurred the meaning so much. I'm sure it was more definite long ago when cities were a lot more compact.
Could you explain this a little more? It's your second post about it. I know this gets a lot of talk in Pittsburgh; my parents used to bring it up back in the 1980s. They were surprised to hear that in 1974 Colorado voters voted in an amendment to the Colorado constitution that makes it very difficult for Denver to annex land. Think of Freda Poundstone every time you cross Denver's borders Eastern cities like Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Boston, etc did their annexing a half century or so earlier. No city sprung up out of the ground fully developed with the same boundaries now as the day it was founded.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-20-2018 at 07:41 PM..
When it comes down to it, there are basically three types of "urban suburbs."
Type 1: Integral sections of the urban fabric of the core of a metro which happened to not be part of the core city. Cambridge MA, Hoboken NJ, or Covington KY are excellent examples of this. A subtype of this which is sometimes seen is where independent satellite cities are absorbed by suburbia, but in many of these cases the cities tend to be still seen as their own thing, not really suburbs.
Type 2: Railroad suburbs or streetcar suburbs which boomed in the late 19th/early 20th centuries. These can have a dense "downtown" area which is packed with businesses and has some multi-family. But the vast majority of the land area in these suburbs is set aside for detached single-family homes, meaning they really aren't very urban feeling overall.
Type 3: Postwar suburbs which have developed dense mixed-use downtown areas over the last few decades. Arlington, VA and Bellvue, WA are probably the best (only?) examples of this typology in the U.S.
I wasn't gonna comment on this, but since I was one of the early posters in this thread who needed clarification, I guess I've technically already involved myself.
So from my viewpoint, "suburbs of" Jacksonville and Indy (places I spend a lot of time in) absolutely include neighborhoods within the city limits. I'd imagine this is true for many of the other consolidated city-counties like Nashville, Louisville, and any others that might exist. In Jacksonville there is one major auto centric suburb (Arlington) and another dozen streetcar suburbs that developed between the late 1800s and into the 1960s and 70s, that are all not only part of the city of Jacksonville now but are considered part of the urban core of Jax lol.
As for South Florida where I now spend the majority of my time, it's a multinodal region and I don't think most would consider Ft Lauderdale or West Palm Beach to be suburbs of Miami. Both Broward County and Palm Beach County have their own downtowns and their own suburbs. I actually live in the suburbs of Miami, but it's funny as our location actually did the reverse of those other cities I mentioned above. Doral used to be a part of the city of Miami and originally developed as a bedroom community (and golf course) from the 60s-80s. In 1998 it became its own city and has since seen a boom in business, density, and created its own quasi-CBD.
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