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The flip side of that is that Toronto (like Vancouver) does a good job of concentrating retail on key streets vs. dusting it everywhere. That makes those key streets really good.
The flip side of that is that Toronto (like Vancouver) does a good job of concentrating retail on key streets vs. dusting it everywhere. That makes those key streets really good.
Yes, I agree that the key streets do a good job in Toronto. Yonge, Bloor, Queen, King etc. However the fact retail being concentrated only on these key streets gives kind of the suburban feel to it. I do know some people prefer that and it itself is not necessarily a bad thing. But if you are to compare Toronto to NYC (or any major cities for that matter), I think it is one of the reasons why Toronto does not feel very urban like it/them. Actually, many people like Kensington market or Yorkville in Toronto and their retail is spread over several streets and these are some of the most vibrant areas in Toronto. Also, in Manhattan, even though retail is everywhere, it still does a great job of keeping the main streets as (or more) vibrant than Toronto's main streets.
Last edited by brighthope; 06-07-2019 at 11:39 AM..
Yes, I agree that the key streets do a good job in Toronto. Yonge, Bloor, Queen, King etc. However the fact retail being concentrated only on these key streets gives kind of the suburban feel to it. I do know some people prefer that and it itself is not necessarily a bad thing. But if you are to compare Toronto to NYC (or any major cities for that matter), I think it is one of the reasons why Toronto does not feel very urban like it/them. Actually, many people like Kensington market or Yorkville in Toronto and their retail is spread over several streets and these are some of the most vibrant areas in Toronto. Also, in Manhattan, even though retail is everywhere, it still does a great job of keeping the main streets as (or more) vibrant than Toronto's main streets.
Manhattan can do retail on every avenue because the avenues are really far apart, in addition to the huge density. If they had normal block lengths, retail would feel more spread out.
Manhattan can do retail on every avenue because the avenues are really far apart, in addition to the huge density. If they had normal block lengths, retail would feel more spread out.
You mean in Manhattan avenues are not really far apart, right? If that's what you mean, yes that's true. Manhattan is 3.7km wide and it takes about 40 minutes to walk east-west with a moderate speed. There are about 10 avenues. It's about a 4 minute walk between the avenues. In addition to that, there are retail on "streets" (east-west) between the avenues even on apparently smaller residential streets. I stayed on 51st or 52st street between the 2nd and 3rd avenues, and it was a residential street full of brownstones. However, there was a small wine bar that was open until midnight. There are many, many streets like this or with more retail on it. When it comes to Avenues, it is difficult to find a stretch where there is no retail.
Meanwhile, not only retail is limited to the arterial streets, not all of them are full of retail in Toronto. Bathurst, Jarvas, Sherbourne, University...these avenues/streets have some retail, but not much. Because one block is bigger, it takes longer time to walk from one main street to another and there is a chance there is no retail on that stretch of the main street. When it comes to smaller streets, there is virtually zero retail even in downtown (except for some in the entertainment district, like John street or Peter street).
If Toronto's arterial streets are full of retail, it might give more of the urban feel even if there is no retail in smaller and residential streets.
Last edited by brighthope; 06-07-2019 at 02:55 PM..
This is the sort of thing that may lead some people to compare Toronto to NYC:
I can totally see that. This is one of the areas I go to when I want to feel urban. I sometimes walk from the area (King/Yonge) to King/Bathurst and it is a nice, urban walk. Also I go up on Yonge to Dundas or sometimes to Bloor.
The difference is, however, that there are only a few areas or streets in Downtown Toronto that you can feel this busy, urban, NYC-like vibe whereas in NYC (Manhattan) it's everywhere. There are other urban areas in downtown Toronto, but it's not really like NYC/Manhattan. The scale is very different.
You mean in Manhattan avenues are not really far apart, right? If that's what you mean, yes that's true. Manhattan is 3.7km wide and it takes about 40 minutes to walk east-west with a moderate speed. There are about 10 avenues. It's about a 4 minute walk between the avenues. In addition to that, there are retail on "streets" (east-west) between the avenues even on apparently smaller residential streets. I stayed on 51st or 52st street between the 2nd and 3rd avenues, and it was a residential street full of brownstones. However, there was a small wine bar that was open until midnight. There are many, many streets like this or with more retail on it. When it comes to Avenues, it is difficult to find a stretch where there is no retail.
Meanwhile, not only retail is limited to the arterial streets, not all of them are full of retail in Toronto. Bathurst, Jarvas, Sherbourne, University...these avenues/streets have some retail, but not much. Because one block is bigger, it takes longer time to walk from one main street to another and there is a chance there is no retail on that stretch of the main street. When it comes to smaller streets, there is virtually zero retail even in downtown (except for some in the entertainment district, like John street or Peter street).
If Toronto's arterial streets are full of retail, it might give more of the urban feel even if there is no retail in smaller and residential streets.
No, I mean that Manhattan's typical blocks are enormously long. They have 1/2 or 1/3 the north-south avenues that many cities would have.
Due to their huge density and the distance between avenues, they do support a lot of retail on side streets, but mostly the "destination" stuff is in certain nodes or on the avenues. Otherwise it's more neighborhood-focused and sporadic. There are many very quiet side streets and even avenues even in the denser parts of Manhattan.
The big difference between Toronto and NYC is they hyper-density of Manhattan. Toronto has a lot of high rises along the lake and downtown, but it quickly transitions to rowhouses and yards.
Someone made a statement earlier this evening on TV that Toronto is his favorite city and when asked to explain why he said because "Toronto is like New York but a lot cleaner and the people are nicer"
No, I mean that Manhattan's typical blocks are enormously long. They have 1/2 or 1/3 the north-south avenues that many cities would have.
Due to their huge density and the distance between avenues, they do support a lot of retail on side streets, but mostly the "destination" stuff is in certain nodes or on the avenues. Otherwise it's more neighborhood-focused and sporadic. There are many very quiet side streets and even avenues even in the denser parts of Manhattan.
Do you mean the distance between the avenues are longer than in many other cities?
According to this, "The basic Manhattan street grid is 200' North/South and 600' East/West."
That's less than 200m East/West(Even shorter than I originally thought and posted) and it would take only 2 minutes or so to walk. I don't think it's long. And even if you think it's long, Toronto has much longer distance between major streets (like between Univesity to Spadina, Spadina to Bathurst) and should be able to support retail on side streets as well.
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