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I’m assuming that as the OP you are referring to me on the flagship issue. First off, I had previously state that Indiana is actwo dlagship state (Illnois is a one. Flagship state) Of course Purdue is a full flagship. Fro starters, it has a better academic reputation than IU. And Indiana,IMHO perhaps more so than any other state, more clearly splits up the curricula between the two....as in no engineering school at IU, no law school at Purdue (I would consider U-M and MSU the opposite...there ciricula has endless overlaps...and, yes, I consider Michigan to have two flagships..obviously U-M is better than MSU It is also better than all the midwestern publics. U-M is top strata, something it shares with Cal, UCLA and UVA. But MSU holds its own quite well and functions exactly like a public flagship
I compared thecthree most prominent college towns in threemes states. And while IU and Pudue are definitely peers, Bloomington and West Lafayette are not.
And while the difference between Iowa City and Ames is less, Iowa City still comes across as the big boy collgectown
For a long, long time Iowa was the bigger college in Iowa. ISU has exploded, and Ames with it. It is drastically different than when I graduated from Iowa State (2007), and wholly unrecognizable from when my dad was there. Iowa City is more of a cultural center (liberal arts vs. STEM/Ag, plus not being in Des Moines' shadow), but Ames is a great college town, and the ISU campus is one of the prettiest in the country.
When it comes to fall football atmospheres, ISU is on par with anyone these days. It's a huge, wild tailgate scene.
College football is a big deal in Iowa, and not just in Iowa City.
For a long, long time Iowa was the bigger college in Iowa. ISU has exploded, and Ames with it. It is drastically different than when I graduated from Iowa State (2007), and wholly unrecognizable from when my dad was there. Iowa City is more of a cultural center (liberal arts vs. STEM/Ag, plus not being in Des Moines' shadow), but Ames is a great college town, and the ISU campus is one of the prettiest in the country.
When it comes to fall football atmospheres, ISU is on par with anyone these days. It's a huge, wild tailgate scene.
College football is a big deal in Iowa, and not just in Iowa City.
That's true. I'd put it a notch below Alabama for college football craziness (where excellence on the field isn't "nice to have", it's mandatory), but it's certainly in the top 10-12 states.
Minnesota was a football powerhouse until the early 1960s, which not so coincidentally, they started getting professional sports.
For a long, long time Iowa was the bigger college in Iowa. ISU has
exploded, and Ames with it. It is drastically different than when I graduated from Iowa State (2007), and wholly unrecognizable from when my dad was there. Iowa City is more of a cultural center (liberal arts vs. STEM/Ag, plus not being in Des Moines' shadow), but Ames is a great college town, and the ISU campus is one of the prettiest in the country.
When it comes to fall football atmospheres, ISU is on par with anyone these days. It's a huge, wild tailgate scene.
College football is a big deal in Iowa, and not just in Iowa City.
I would say it is fairly well known how ISU has advanced its profile in many ways.
Couple questions for you:
1. Do you see the UI/IC to ISU/Am dynamic similar to the U-M/A2 to MSU/EL dynamic?
2. As noted above, I was fully aware of how ISU has risen in profile and how it has turned into a peer institution to Iowa (there was a time in the last century when Iowans had the same interest in the Hawks as one flagship Nebraska had in the Huskers). I know there are many factors that cintribute to this, but could this be one: DM has become more of a major city in the last 30 or so years. Is ISU’s extremely close proximity to it as compared to that an IC a factor in ISU’s rise?
Iowa (like ISU) have a strong statewide presence. But it would be hard to deny that Iowa has a really strong East Iowa presence. Lots of reasons: for well over 100 years, Iowa has been in the Big Ten (and eastern Iowa is obviously more like the states east of the river than any other part of the state. Big Ten membership and proximity to the big city have made Chicago/Chicagoland a string part if the university’s enrollment and profile has this contributed to ISU gaining much from the growth of DM?
One other noteworthy point: the state of Iowa is unique.From the beginnings of college football, Iowa alone had its original flagship and its la landgrant i two separate conferences. And Iowa’s Big Ten was a beast compared to ISC/ISU’s Big Eight. This put the Cyclones at a real disadvantage: there is no question that it aided SU, K-St and OK St to be paired wwith U-M, KU, OU
I would say it is fairly well known how ISU has advanced its profile in many ways.
Couple questions for you:
1. Do you see the UI/IC to ISU/Am dynamic similar to the U-M/A2 to MSU/EL dynamic?
2. As noted above, I was fully aware of how ISU has risen in profile and how it has turned into a peer institution to Iowa (there was a time in the last century when Iowans had the same interest in the Hawks as one flagship Nebraska had in the Huskers). I know there are many factors that cintribute to this, but could this be one: DM has become more of a major city in the last 30 or so years. Is ISU’s extremely close proximity to it as compared to that an IC a factor in ISU’s rise?
Iowa (like ISU) have a strong statewide presence. But it would be hard to deny that Iowa has a really strong East Iowa presence. Lots of reasons: for well over 100 years, Iowa has been in the Big Ten (and eastern Iowa is obviously more like the states east of the river than any other part of the state. Big Ten membership and proximity to the big city have made Chicago/Chicagoland a string part if the university’s enrollment and profile has this contributed to ISU gaining much from the growth of DM?
One other noteworthy point: the state of Iowa is unique.From the beginnings of college football, Iowa alone had its original flagship and its la landgrant i two separate conferences. And Iowa’s Big Ten was a beast compared to ISC/ISU’s Big Eight. This put the Cyclones at a real disadvantage: there is no question that it aided SU, K-St and OK St to be paired wwith U-M, KU, OU
I have honestly never been to Michigan, so I can't really make a fair comparison in regards to Ann Arbor and East Lansing, but from what I can tell, neither Iowa City nor Ames are that similar to either of those towns. East Lansing is attached to the capitol, and Ann Arbor is more or less a suburb of Detroit. The land grant/liberal arts split they remind me the most of is Lawrence and Manahattan, KS, with both of Iowa's towns being slightly more cosmopolitan than their Kansas counterparts.
The rise of Des Moines and rise of Iowa State go hand in hand. New jobs in Des Moines are being filled by Iowa State alums, which is creating demand for ISU alums and putting more Cyclone fans in Des Moines, thereby raising the profile of the institution, which is feeding the growth of that city. They are HEAVILY linked, IMO.
I don't know that the Cyclones were as disadvantaged by being separated from their in-state rival, athletically. Iowa State, as an institution, was traditionally disinterested in sports, and their status was mostly a result of being woefully underfunded by the university. Iowa always took it seriously. Iowa State began catching up when they started investing in it. I do think that their respective conferences were good fits, historically. Eastern Iowa is more aligned with Chicago, and the Great Lakes area, whereas Central/Western Iowa are more aligned with KC/Omaha (traditional Big 8 footprint) and the Great Plains. I think it's kind of cool, and an accurate reflection of the state's culture, that the schools were separated that way.
I have honestly never been to Michigan, so I can't really make a fair comparison in regards to Ann Arbor and East Lansing, but from what I can tell, neither Iowa City nor Ames are that similar to either of those towns. East Lansing is attached to the capitol, and Ann Arbor is more or less a suburb of Detroit. The land grant/liberal arts split they remind me the most of is Lawrence and Manahattan, KS, with both of Iowa's towns being slightly more cosmopolitan than their Kansas counterparts.
The rise of Des Moines and rise of Iowa State go hand in hand. New jobs in Des Moines are being filled by Iowa State alums, which is creating demand for ISU alums and putting more Cyclone fans in Des Moines, thereby raising the profile of the institution, which is feeding the growth of that city. They are HEAVILY linked, IMO.
I don't know that the Cyclones were as disadvantaged by being separated from their in-state rival, athletically. Iowa State, as an institution, was traditionally disinterested in sports, and their status was mostly a result of being woefully underfunded by the university. Iowa always took it seriously. Iowa State began catching up when they started investing in it. I do think that their respective conferences were good fits, historically. Eastern Iowa is more aligned with Chicago, and the Great Lakes area, whereas Central/Western Iowa are more aligned with KC/Omaha (traditional Big 8 footprint) and the Great Plains. I think it's kind of cool, and an accurate reflection of the state's culture, that the schools were separated that way.
I would also add that the pressure the state legislature put on the two universities to renew their long lapsed fooball series aided ISU more than Iowa and the fact that he Cyclones had some success at the start hlpd. Of couse Iowa State considerably closed the gap with Iowa on fascilities, particularly football
I’m going to question your premise. I’m not sure Indiana University actually is the flagship university for Indiana. I would say Purdue is on equal footing if not slightly more so than IU. IU has always been known for being stronger in the liberal arts/law while Purdue is heavily STEM-focused, which has become increasingly prominent in recent decades.
Sure, West Lafayette isn’t as sexy as Bloomington, I’ll give ya that. Still a decent college town though.
West Lafayette is the fastest growing city in Indiana. It's about 46,000 and about 18% Asian. That little tid-bit of information lets ya know right away that there must be alot of scientists and engineers and other smart people who live in West Lafayette. West Lafayette and Lafayette is an idealy convenient location between Indianapolis and Chicago for future growth.
Employers are moving to areas where the smartest people in the state are, which is why now-a-days, so many college towns that host flagship universitys are the fastest growing cities in each state. Since 1960, Bloomington, West Lafayette, Columbia, Missouri, Lexington, Athens, Tallahassaee, Chapel Hill, College Station, Lawrence, Kansas, Boulder, have all grown by leaps and bounds since then. Many, if not most or all of those college towns have more than doubled their poulation from 1960 to 2018.
I doubt if I'll be around to see it, but by the year 2050 I predict Lafayette Metro will pass Evansville Metro, South Bend Metro and Ft. Wayne Metro to become Indiana's 3rd largest metro after Indianapolis and NW Indiana. They've already passed Muncie and Terre Haute, when West Lafayette and Bloomington was close to half the population of Muncie and Terre Haute in 1950 and 1960.
West Lafayette is the fastest growing city in Indiana. It's about 46,000 and about 18% Asian. That little tid-bit of information lets ya know right away that there must be alot of scientists and engineers and other smart people who live in West Lafayette. West Lafayette and Lafayette is an idealy convenient location between Indianapolis and Chicago for future growth.
Employers are moving to areas where the smartest people in the state are, which is why now-a-days, so many college towns that host flagship universitys are the fastest growing cities in each state. Since 1960, Bloomington, West Lafayette, Columbia, Missouri, Lexington, Athens, Tallahassaee, Chapel Hill, College Station, Lawrence, Kansas, Boulder, have all grown by leaps and bounds since then. Many, if not most or all of those college towns have more than doubled their poulation from 1960 to 2018.
I doubt if I'll be around to see it, but by the year 2050 I predict Lafayette Metro will pass Evansville Metro, South Bend Metro and Ft. Wayne Metro to become Indiana's 3rd largest metro after Indianapolis and NW Indiana. They've already passed Muncie and Terre Haute, when West Lafayette and Bloomington was close to half the population of Muncie and Terre Haute in 1950 and 1960.
Would it have been better for Purdue if Lafayette had annexed the campus area.. before West Lafayette incorporated, Purdue’s location was called “Lafayette”
Purdue certainly is near enough to downtown Lafayette that perhaps the city’s CBD would have benefitted from Purdue being in city limits while Purdue might have benefitted by being in a more substantially sized town.
It’s like, I would feel saying Purdue’s hometown is Lafayette while c i would never say MSU is in Lansing. Lansing and East Lansung are totally different places
Would it have been better for Purdue if Lafayette had annexed the campus area.. before West Lafayette incorporated, Purdue’s location was called “Lafayette”
Purdue certainly is near enough to downtown Lafayette that perhaps the city’s CBD would have benefitted from Purdue being in city limits while Purdue might have benefitted by being in a more substantially sized town.
It’s like, I would feel saying Purdue’s hometown is Lafayette while c i would never say MSU is in Lansing. Lansing and East Lansung are totally different places
When I lived in Muncie, it seems like almost everybody in casual converaations would refer to Purdue as being in Lafayette rather than West Lafayette, but at the same time, I think most everybody really did know that Purdue was in West Lafayette. A conversation might go something like this:
Question: "Hey whatch'ya up to today" ?
Answer: "Oh, we won 2 tickets to the Purdue - Iowa game, so we're gonna drive over to Lafayette and watch it".
I think the City of Lafayette loses out on lots of money by the Purdue Campus being located in the City of West Lafayette, even though it's a win-win for entire Tippecanoe County. But, just think of all the money that Lafayette misses out on Saturdays in the Fall when Purdue plays at home. I bet it's close to a million dollars over the course of a football season.
If Purdue is playing at home on ESPN and the other networks, the announcers almost always will let the viewer know several times thru out the game that it is "coming from West Lafayette, Indiana" and only once in a while they will they happen to mention that the City of Lafayette is right across the river. A city getting mentioned on national tv is like free advertising.
I bet if the City of Lafayette had it to do over, they never would have agreed to split the city in two. The two together are over 100,000. I didn't realize it, but, Tippecanoe County now has a larger population than Vanderbugh County, where Evansville is. I think that happened in the last population estimate.
Last edited by Ivory Lee Spurlock; 06-08-2019 at 07:36 AM..
I doubt if I'll be around to see it, but by the year 2050 I predict Lafayette Metro will pass Evansville Metro, South Bend Metro and Ft. Wayne Metro to become Indiana's 3rd largest metro after Indianapolis and NW Indiana. They've already passed Muncie and Terre Haute, when West Lafayette and Bloomington was close to half the population of Muncie and Terre Haute in 1950 and 1960.
Fort Wayne (437,631) has close to double the metro population of Lafayette (221,828) and is also growing, so it's very unlikely those two areas will switch places. It is in much better shape than Muncie or Terre Haute.
Regarding the three metro areas in this thread, Iowa City has seen the fastest growth, followed by Bloomington, with Champaign-Urbana last. Income levels also appear to be a bit higher in Iowa City than the other two metro areas - maybe they have more business activity beyond the university than Bloomington and Champaign-Urbana? It looks like the "Educational services, and health care and social assistance" industry sector accounts for an even higher share of jobs in Iowa City, so there are probably more practicing physicians per capita who tend to hold well compensated employment.
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