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I never cease to be amazed at the sheer volume of high rises Toronto is building--SF for being a far smaller city likewise has seen a huge transformation in it's downtown core with many, many highrises, albeit at a smaller scale than Toronto obviously.
But this leads me to a few questions you or any other Toronto forumer might know the answers to. I know that like SF, Toronto has a huge housing affordability issue. All the new housing has had virtually zero effect as far as lowering rents and home prices.
Has Toronto's affordability problem been helped by all the new construction? Or has it been like here, a bunch of new housing options for the rich?
Also, are buyers from China a major factor there like Ive read is the case in Vancouver?
Just wondering. Mainly because Im looking for cities where all this mega building has actually resulted in lower rents and home prices and I havent found such a place yet.
Affordablity has not been affected at all in Toronto by all the highrises. In fact, home/condo prices have almost doubled in five years. This is compounded by wage stagnation in many sectors of the economy. Those who are doing well are doing quite well, but the middle class in TO has been hollowed out. The demographics of the Old City has changed tremendously too as empty nesters sold off their homes in areas like Little Italy, Trinity Bellwoods, Riverdale, and so on and decamped to the burbs or small towns in Southern Ontario. Wealthy young people with small families (or none at all) moved in and the price of everything skyrocketed to exploit the new money being injected into neighborhoods that had once hosted largely middle class families and tenants.
I had to leave the core about ten years ago to tend to a family issue in the suburbs. When I wanted to move back, I couldn't afford the city anymore as a single guy. I thought I'd be able to move back when I got my career going strong again, but that never happened. Rapid change in the economy and oversaturation with educated professionals made it very difficult to find good work in sectors that had once supported many families.
This trend has quickly spread to the suburbs. Rents and prices for everything here in Mississauga aren't much different than Toronto. We also have huge numbers of educated professionals moving in from the Gulf and Middle East, further saturating the market with engineers, educators, and every other white collar professional you can imagine. With so many people having degrees in similar fields and Toronto's economy changing rapidly, there is a real sense of frustration among those who have been left behind as well as newcomers who are arriving with years of professional experience and are now driving for Uber to support large families.
So, yeah...affordability is not happening. The city is more polarized across socioeconomic lines than any time since the Ward was still standing. I don't think it's a coincidence that violent crime and drug overdoses are at all-time highs. A lot of hopeless people looking for some quick relief; a lot of desperate people looking to make a quick buck on the streets and getting caught up and shot up. The homicide numbers are a testament to our excellent emergency services and trauma surgeons. Toronto is at 300+ shootings and even more stabbings, but only forty-some murders for 2019. I think the figure is two people dying every day in the GTA from opioid overdoses. Again, many more surviving.
So, yeah...globalization has been great for some but a real ****show for others.
Affordablity has not been affected at all in Toronto by all the highrises. In fact, home/condo prices have almost doubled in five years. This is compounded by wage stagnation in many sectors of the economy. Those who are doing well are doing quite well, but the middle class in TO has been hollowed out. The demographics of the Old City has changed tremendously too as empty nesters sold off their homes in areas like Little Italy, Trinity Bellwoods, Riverdale, and so on and decamped to the burbs or small towns in Southern Ontario. Wealthy young people with small families (or none at all) moved in and the price of everything skyrocketed to exploit the new money being injected into neighborhoods that had once hosted largely middle class families and tenants.
I had to leave the core about ten years ago to tend to a family issue in the suburbs. When I wanted to move back, I couldn't afford the city anymore as a single guy. I thought I'd be able to move back when I got my career going strong again, but that never happened. Rapid change in the economy and oversaturation with educated professionals made it very difficult to find good work in sectors that had once supported many families.
This trend has quickly spread to the suburbs. Rents and prices for everything here in Mississauga aren't much different than Toronto. We also have huge numbers of educated professionals moving in from the Gulf and Middle East, further saturating the market with engineers, educators, and every other white collar professional you can imagine. With so many people having degrees in similar fields and Toronto's economy changing rapidly, there is a real sense of frustration among those who have been left behind as well as newcomers who are arriving with years of professional experience and are now driving for Uber to support large families.
So, yeah...affordability is not happening. The city is more polarized across socioeconomic lines than any time since the Ward was still standing. I don't think it's a coincidence that violent crime and drug overdoses are at all-time highs. A lot of hopeless people looking for some quick relief; a lot of desperate people looking to make a quick buck on the streets and getting caught up and shot up. The homicide numbers are a testament to our excellent emergency services and trauma surgeons. Toronto is at 300+ shootings and even more stabbings, but only forty-some murders for 2019. I think the figure is two people dying every day in the GTA from opioid overdoses. Again, many more surviving.
So, yeah...globalization has been great for some but a real ****show for others.
Drug overdoses are not necessarily because of "desperation", a lot of victims of opioids are middle-upper class with good jobs. This crisis does not discriminate.
The spike in shootings has been attributed to a gang war, which is nothing new for Toronto and still nothing compared to comparable cities of its size.
Toronto has become one of the most desirable major cities on earth, consequently demand for jobs, and homes is very high and costs reflect that.
I shudder to think how much it will cost to live in the city in 10 years. This is one of the last parcels of land in the south core:
The south core was basically built from scratch within the last 5 years and condo prices are already in the $1200+/sqft range. 5-10 years from now? Forget about it.
For all intents I think the Gardiner has been pretty well integrated into the urban fabric, as well as it can be anyway.
The difference is Chicago's Lake Shore Drive is GROUND LEVEL, but for the stretch elevated over the Chicago river. In a perfect world it would not need to be. In a rebuild it could be underground.... but unlikely. More a boulevard seems more unlikely in traffic it carries as its future was to be again.
But using it to boast Toronto doesn't work. Your baaaack and fine as boasting Toronto the best city in the world rhetoric. But keeping the thread going to boast on Toronto will probably gain little in new replies.
I merely addressed Lake Shore Drive Chicago you posted a street-view of and with the Gardiner ... that's a big difference. There already are plans to demolish parts of the Gardiner. It is not loved as you insinuate as the fabric of the city. Its fate has been decided and what will happen to parts.
DavePa, you have a very strange obsession with the so called “Toronto boasters”, as anyone who tries to set the record straight on the constant Toronto bashing on this site is called a boaster by you. It’s getting very old!
^^^^ the post above I'm not touching on. He is entitled to his opinion. Both lakefronts have great points and maybe a less one...... but Chicago's is totally man-made as its original one was lost. Much being fill into the lake to make it. Its parks, harbors and beaches. Even half of the core is on fill. The lake once came to Michigan Ave. The city's main stretch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42
DavePa, you have a very strange obsession with the so called “Toronto boastersâ€, as anyone who tries to set the record straight on the constant Toronto bashing on this site is called a boaster by you. It’s getting very old!
You said it .... wasn't in my recent post. What bashing? Lake Shore Drive Chicago was mentioned as if vs the Gardiner. I had no intention to post again otherwise.
Guess I should have used links to street-views.
Well here is a link on the Gardiner's fate on part of the shore of Toronto.
Well here is one newspaper link updated May 2018. Not sure if the ongoing debate for years has befn finally chosen.
* Eastern section --- Has a picture of it in the link.
From link:
There are three options on the table: remove the elevated portion and replace it with a boulevard;
- rebuild it in its current form;
- a newer "hybrid option" that will look a lot like the current highway but allow for more development
- the hybrid option would be priced at $920-million over the long term for capital, operating and maintenance costs.
- about twice the long-term cost of -- removing the 1.7-kilometre stretch of road.
Another link to the same new-source.
* This link has a uglier picture then the other one above ......
I would think a ground-level solution works better for aesthetics? But as a boulevard can it handle the current traffic?
Chicago's Lake Shore Drive is ground-level already. Again, but for where it elevates over the Chicago river and quickly back down. It to will be rebuilt. Choices not made yet. But the burying parts? I se not happening in added cost for core sections. But as a boulevard again as it originally was. Again, and handling current traffic it carries today.
But no one is touting elevating it. Absolutely never to happen.
I'd love to see especially the stretch between Lincoln Park and the river buried and added parkland there, or art least Oak Street beach to the river. Cost though make it more unlikely IMO.
Unobstructed but the road itself here along the downtown parks.
From May. Going though the core, the elevation over the river and back down heading up the Gold Coast then.
It is GROUND-LEVEL. Why is this a issue to ADD MY TWO-CENTS AFTER BEING
MENTIONED AS IF THE GARDINER AND LAKE SHORE DRIVE ARE ALIKE????
From 2013 low quality but still shows it ground-level thru the core
and some elevation over the river and back to ground-level.
This should all be if the Gardiner is brought in .... compared to the
removal of SF's ugly former elevated expressway damaged in a
earthquake or what DC has along its waterways. Not to Chicago's.
Drug overdoses are not necessarily because of "desperation", a lot of victims of opioids are middle-upper class with good jobs. This crisis does not discriminate.
The spike in shootings has been attributed to a gang war, which is nothing new for Toronto and still nothing compared to comparable cities of its size.
Toronto has become one of the most desirable major cities on earth, consequently demand for jobs, and homes is very high and costs reflect that.
I shudder to think how much it will cost to live in the city in 10 years. This is one of the last parcels of land in the south core:
The south core was basically built from scratch within the last 5 years and condo prices are already in the $1200+/sqft range. 5-10 years from now? Forget about it.
As far as the opioid crisis, it has certainly affected the wealthy, but it is mostly middle-class whites (at least in the GTA/Golden Horseshoe) who are bearing the brunt of the epidemic, and mostly those under 40YO. These are the same folks who have oftem found themselves falling behind in the new economy where their skills are not considered important, or where wages have been supressed.
Much like the US, Canada's economic system teaches us that hard work and education are the keys to success. Thus, if you are not "successful," then it is your own fault. The resulting shame and desperation is, imo, what has led so many in the white middle class to start using prescription opioids and street drugs like heroin and fentanyl. They have been left behind, feel like failures, and have turned to drugs to mitigate the feelings of shame, depression, and anxiety that are the by-product of being financially unsuccessful in a capitalist society where material culture is said to be the end-all/be-all of our existence.
All these drugs were available years ago, but the current spike of use and overdose among middle-class whites and youth are, I think, I response to the perceived hopelessness of getting ahead in such a competitive society that is punitive towards those who are perceived as failures.
As for the shootings, yes, they are largely committed by street-involved youth. My point was that the squeeze is especially hard on the middle class and low-income earners. If you are coming up in Toronto Housing or other low-income housing right about now, there is increased competition to make money off drugs and other illegal markets. The lack of jobs is causing youths who might not have otherwise chosen the street life to do so in order to get paid. With more bangers walking around, all chasing the same dollar (and in TO, these youth gangs largely stay away from opioids for various reasons, so they're after a stagnant and declining weed/coke/party drug market), it's inevitable that there will be more violent confrontations.
But back to globalization and which city has the most to gain...Toronto has boomed as a result of globalization and still has a lot to gain from it. However, there are many people for whom globalization has been a disaster. This has resulted in all kinds of issues that most Torontonians working white collar jobs are never going to notice. Some are reported on the news, but without context. I have my finger on the pulse of what's going on behind-the-scenes because of my job, because of my friends and acquaintances all over the city who are seeing things change first-hand, and from my own experience as an educated professional making poverty wages even after 16 years in my field.
I personally think Canada needs to change its immigration strategy and start looking for tradespeople rather than white collar professionals for whom there is no work. It might also be good to encourage newcomers to move to cities other than those in the GTA. We're simply swamped with highly skilled immigrants whose skills are no longer relevant or needed in the current economy. If everyone is an engineer, who is going to do the actual construction work? This mentality of university = smart / trades = dumb has to end.
But back to globalization and which city has the most to gain...Toronto has boomed as a result of globalization and still has a lot to gain from it. However, there are many people for whom globalization has been a disaster. This has resulted in all kinds of issues that most Torontonians working white collar jobs are never going to notice. Some are reported on the news, but without context. I have my finger on the pulse of what's going on behind-the-scenes because of my job, because of my friends and acquaintances all over the city who are seeing things change first-hand, and from my own experience as an educated professional making poverty wages even after 16 years in my field.
I personally think Canada needs to change its immigration strategy and start looking for tradespeople rather than white collar professionals for whom there is no work. It might also be good to encourage newcomers to move to cities other than those in the GTA. We're simply swamped with highly skilled immigrants whose skills are no longer relevant or needed in the current economy. If everyone is an engineer, who is going to do the actual construction work? This mentality of university = smart / trades = dumb has to end.
I've enjoyed reading your posts. I think if anyone has been able to highlight what has changed in the city over the last decade or two, your posts have done a remarkable job of that. Globalization and increasing income inequality, is an issue that is impacting Toronto, as much as it has many of the more attractive urban areas of the 21st century.
There are however, and i'm sure you'd agree, some structural issues in the city that if addressed, could certainly dampen the blow. That is, if we actually made decisions that on a macro level, would best serve the growth. There is this endless desire, to assuage those who would never let go of the low density housing model that dominates our burbs. Sure you get 2000 plus commie block highrises and a bunch of new condo dev, but as much as all these condo's can change a skyline, it isn't enough for the growth and specifically type of growth we are experiencing. There needs to be a more aggressive zoning policy for higher density, mid-rise housing stock in areas of the city people actually want to live in, that is presently dominated by SFH to infinity. Particularly that which would encourage multigenerational housing.
It is frustrating that our political leadership is ill equipped to handle this. Even on a municipal level, there are lands that could be rezoned and repurposed for this type of housing, and they could incentivize development of that. Sure little bits here and there help, but it isn't enough to handle the growth we are experiencing, and it also doesn't respect the nature of the immigrants who are coming to the urban area from a housing and cultural perspective. They are far more inclined and open to this type of housing, instead of large SFH disconnected from urbanity. Maybe this way, they would have less of a need to leave home as early as possible, to move into a shoe box condo. Now if only THEY started getting involved more in our political process.....
Chicago's Lake Shore Drive is ground-level already. Again, but for where it elevates over the Chicago river and quickly back down. It to will be rebuilt. Choices not made yet. But the burying parts? I se not happening in added cost for core sections. But as a boulevard again as it originally was. Again, and handling current traffic it carries today.
.
Toronto has always had a sort of gritty relationship with its waterfront. I remember, many years ago loving my flight sim PC game. The default airport was Meigs field. As you know, that airport was bulldozed out of existence. That is something that has not happened, in spite of Nimby's in Toronto with our Island airport. From the earliest times, there was a pretty strong industrial relationship. Even to this day, and even though tremendous progress has been made in the last few decades on our waterfront, there is still a sort of practical application of its use that you don't quite see in many other cities.
I don't think this is a 'bad' thing - it is just a Toronto thing. The Gardiner is a sort of reflection of the dynamic I just explained to you. While it isn't the prettiest thing around, it isn't the dealbreaker people make it out to be. Its dismantling isn't necessary as some sort of 'arbitrary' measure of what the city 'needs' to do, in order to progress to the 'next' level whatever that is. It has simply been adapted into the surrounding landscape. Buildings contructed within feet of it. Public spaces incorporated under or around it.
DavePa, you have a very strange obsession with the so called “Toronto boasters”, as anyone who tries to set the record straight on the constant Toronto bashing on this site is called a boaster by you. It’s getting very old!
Wow - long time buddy! Hope all is well down in the tropics of Canada :P
As for our friend - yes it is strange BUT there is an interest in the city and all the boosters have taught him so much about the centre of the universe - though he'd never thank them for all the wonderful and factual information presented. He has learned so much and deep down, you know he loves the Six
Last edited by fusion2; 09-03-2019 at 09:44 PM..
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Not to Chicago's.
