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What argument? Singapore and Swiss Air dont fly to Toronto-period. Not sure what youre trying to say. It's always a matter of market demand.
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You're hung up on percentages.
Sure am
So based on the data from both data, we now know the following:
42% of Toronto's international passengers are going to the US. That doesnt even take into account Canadians who winter in the Carribean and Mexico/Central America.
By contrast,
75% of San Francisco's International passengers are leaving the Americas altogether.
What argument? Singapore and Swiss Air dont fly to Toronto-period. Not sure what youre trying to say. It's always a matter of market demand.
Market demand is really not a question, there are plenty of flights from Singapore and Swiss destinations to YYZ.
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Sure am
So based on the data from both data, we now know the following:
42% of Toronto's international passengers are going to the US. That doesnt even take into account Canadians who winter in the Carribean and Mexico/Central America.
By contrast,
75% of San Francisco's International passengers are leaving the Americas altogether.
The pies are not the same size, the YYZ pie is over twice the size of SFO.
Those 75% of SFO passengers leaving the Americas are still fewer passengers leaving the americas from SFO than YYZ.
Toronto has over 30% (6 million) more non-US international passengers than SFO.
Market demand is really not a question, there are plenty of flights from Singapore and Swiss destinations to YYZ.
Just stop making excuses. Singapore Airlines and Swiss Air dont fly to Toronto.
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The pies are not the same size, the YYZ pie is over twice the size of SFO.
Youre 2 top 'international' destinations are what? O'Hare and LaGuardia. Either of those even 1 thousand miles?
Conversely, SFOs top 2 international destinations are Hong Kong and London--
So forgive my LOLing
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You have a smaller airport. Good night!
No SF has more passengers overall, no need to be envious.
And as a reminder:
42% of Toronto's international passengers are going to the US. That doesnt even take into account Canadians who winter in the Carribean and Mexico/Central America.
By contrast,
75% of San Francisco's International passengers are leaving the Americas altogether.
These airport comparison stats are kind of childish. If we go by airport stats then I guess that means Atlanta is the most important city on the planet? Let's move on...……..
42% of Toronto's international passengers are going to the US. That doesnt even take into account Canadians who winter in the Carribean and Mexico/Central America.
By contrast,
75% of San Francisco's International passengers are leaving the Americas altogether.
Oh so wait now, you want to parse out the Americas altogether LOL...
So let me see according to you an Airport in N.A should
Not include Canada or U.S as International
Not include Canadian or U.S airlines as part of the International milieu at all
Not include flights from Canada going to the Caribbean because they are more likely vacationers
You have some interesting unilateral rules in place to sort of navigate your way around an argument that is for sure lol..
Btw - even if we parse out everything that you wish, YYZ would still have more International pax than SFO
One final thing - did you ever think that of the 42 percent of the Transborder pax going to the U.S, a percentage of those are also leaving the Americas via a U.S airport. Same thing applies to the U.S. Air Canada serves SFO with 789's these days from YYZ. They aren't just carrying terminating pax. Some leaving SFO on that flight to YYZ are connecting and going to Europe. Vice versa, some of the pax on that 789 going to SFO from YYZ are connecting going say Singapore on UAL or SIN etc.
As for Cathay Pacific - they DO serve YYZ. Singapore and Swiss. Stay tuned though as I mentioned before. Air Canada serves a YYZ-ZRH route with daily 77W aircraft - sometimes in high density configuration.
Things just aren't as simple as you try to frame things.
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Originally Posted by Differential
All three of those carriers fly to Toronto, not sure what you're on about.
.
No they do not actually. Singapore is really long in the tooth from YYZ. New York city itself only recently had service restored because new Aircraft technology makes it more feasible cost wise. There is a possibility that Singapore airlines will start a YYZ-SIN route in the nearish future. Swiss is more of a likelihood though. Let me be clear, YYZ is already directly connected to Zurich as Air Canada operates daily Boeing 777-300 service to Zurich.... Though some in here would like to dismiss that simply because the airline isn't Swiss. Don't ask me why i'm still puzzled by that lol.
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Originally Posted by Differential
Toronto has over 30% (6 million) more non-US international passengers than SFO.
You are grasping at straws.
You have a smaller airport. Good night!
Yes he is grasping for sure but SFO is the busier airport overall. U.S airports typically have more domestic flights in terms of composition vs their Canadian counterparts. The reason for this is obvious - there are 320 million people in the U.S vs 37 million in Canada. Americans simply have a lot more places to fly to within their country than Canadians. In fairness to SFO, they do have a healthy International operation there. It is far more impressive for International activity than ATL.
If Toronto really wants to leverage globalization, it needs to be more intentional in getting qualified immigrants, people of color, and women into the upper echelons of business and political leadership. Canada talks a lot about "multiculturalism," but its political leadership tends to look like Upper Canada College and High Tory/Monied Liberal Party elites. Toronto's Mayors have been overwhelmingly white and not reflective of the city's diversity. SF and DC both have Black women mayors and are thriving. I know Toronto is thriving as well, but it needs to grow a bench of diverse leaders to help take the city to the next level, especially given Canada's more stable outlook compared to the US.
Canada's immigration policy does put an emphasis on attracting immigrants who can make a contribution. That all said, I can't fault any notion that more emphasis should be put on getting more visible minorities involved in politics. I think things are moving faster in the corporate world here. The CEO of my company is Asian so I see movement there vs 20 years ago. Politics is another matter and I do agree, more people of colour need to be involved in politics in Canada in general.
What I will say, is that in the U.S visible minorities are typically more established and have been in the country longer with more deep roots. Toronto was probably 95 percent white up until the 60's. It has been only 50 years that the city has taken in so many people from around the world. Imagine going from 95 percent white until the 60's then 52 percent non-white in 2019. By 2037, it is projected that Toronto will be 67 percent vis min. One striking contrast between Toronto and other U.S cities is foreign born. 51 percent of Toronto is foreign born. In contrast, in NYC for example it is 37 percent foreign born. Both highly diverse cities with over 140 different languages spoken in both - but Toronto's diversity is simply more new.
But you make some good points regarding visible minorities in Toronto. I think as the vis min community becomes more deeply rooted and established, you will see more people of colour moving more prominently across the political and corporate spectrum. All said, I highly respect and love San Francisco. I find the city and region to be a beacon of a lot of wonderful things for so many people. Toronto and San Francisco share a lot in common though SFO is prettier and has nicer weather. Some posters in here from there are a bit over the top lol you excluded, but overall SFO is my kind of U.S city for a multitude of reasons
And for some reason, I cant seem to locate an official breakdown of YYZs top destinations anywhere. Weird.
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Originally Posted by fusion2
Not include Canada or U.S as International
Not include Canadian or U.S airlines as part of the International milieu at all
Not include flights from Canada going to the Caribbean because they are more likely vacationers
Much simpler: No Non-North American flights and airlines'.
Even YYZs own data separates 'international' from 'transborder'.
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Oh so wait now, you want to parse out the Americas altogether
I just found it interesting we have such a stunning contrast in the focus of international flights from these 2 airports.
A whopping 42% of YYZs international flights are to the United States. If we were able to find data for the Caribbean and Mexico I suspect that traffic accounts for what? 8-10%, maybe a lot more Im not sure.
Either way that means the majority of YYZs international traffic is just within North America. This a far cry from SF, where 3 quarters of all international flights leave the Americas all together.
There is no right or wrong answer to this issue, only observations to be made, and as I stated earlier YYZs international activity is focused on the US and other North American airports, congrats, nothing wrong with that.
SFO is just a different animal altogether, far more focused on long haul transcontinental flights.
42% of Toronto's international passengers are going to the US. That doesnt even take into account Canadians who winter in the Carribean and Mexico/Central America.
By contrast,
75% of San Francisco's International passengers are leaving the Americas altogether.
YYZ has 31% or 6 million more non-US international passengers leaving the Americas than SFO.
So to answer your original question:
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
Without US traffic, YYZs advantage is reduced significantly and if we exclude snowbird traffic I wonder if YYZ isnt actually a bit below SF?
The answer is no. SFO is nowhere close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair
I just found it interesting we have such a stunning contrast in the focus of international flights from these 2 airports.
A whopping 42% of YYZs international flights are to the United States. If we were able to find data for the Caribbean and Mexico I suspect that traffic accounts for what? 8-10%, maybe a lot more Im not sure.
Either way that means the majority of YYZs international traffic is just within North America. This a far cry from SF, where 3 quarters of all international flights leave the Americas all together.
There is no right or wrong answer to this issue, only observations to be made, and as I stated earlier YYZs international activity is focused on the US and other North American airports, congrats, nothing wrong with that.
SFO is just a different animal altogether, far more focused on long haul transcontinental flights.
Because you're arguing semantics to muddy the waters after you lost your original argument.
YYZ's overall international traffic: 31,600,816
SFO international traffic: 14,294,922
If you want to stick to your percentages then you must concede Toronto's international passenger numbers are 2.2x SF's.
But it doesn't matter, if you include the US our international numbers are over double SFO's, if you exclude the US our international numbers are still 30% higher than SFO's. No matter how you slice it, YYZ is a much bigger international airport than SFO, which is all that matters in this discussion.
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Either way that means the majority of YYZs international traffic is just within North America.
There is no evidence for this statement, transborder passengers from YYZ are fewer in number than international passengers from YYZ. Both the transborder and international passenger numbers each exceed SFO's international passenger numbers.
Last edited by Differential; 08-25-2019 at 09:44 AM..
LOL just so we're clear: SFO is the busiest airport in this thread.
And the SF Metro Region is by far the busiest air travel market in this thread.
2018 Total Passengers:
85,706,856 San Francisco-SFO/OAK/SJC
74,671,158 Washington-BWI/DCA/IAD
52,307,418 Toronto-YYZ/YTZ
k thanks
I meant international airport.
But that's a good pick-me-up for you after your devastating loss on the international stats
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