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I'm very surprised that people assume that Detroit is in better shape than St. Louis. St. Louis is half the size and has a greater number of stable urban neighborhoods, a better transit system, and better urban universities.
Baltimore on the other hand does have an advantage over St. Louis with it's location on the East Coast and having a more intact urban core. Fortunately, East Coast cities were not inflicted with the same level of disinvestment and urban renewal as their Midwestern counterparts. With that said, I still think Baltimore and St. Louis match up very favorably from a QOL perspective. Although persistent poverty and crime has done a lot to damage both cities livability.
If I were to rank them. I would give a slight edge to Baltimore because it has the best urban core to work with and located in a much more progressive part of the country. St. Louis comes in second because although it has seen major disinvestment it has a lot of similar legacy institutions as Baltimore to help stabilize the core of the city. Abandonment also isn't as wide spread and evident as Detroit. Detroit has a lot of work to do and its sheer size and depth of abandonment makes true revitalization seem nearly impossible without Sunbelt style growth. Baltimore and St. Louis are much more compact making a true urban revitalization a lot more plausible. They also invested in rail transit which gives them an advantage going forward.
I like Baltimore at the top because of the location.
I like StL second because of the human capital production between WashU and SLU and the momentum building between Cortex, BioStL, 39 North, NGA relocation and the North of Washington announcement. Also, it is a healthcare hub for a very large area and is the HQ for BJC, SSM, Mercy and Ascenscion.
Detroit is really hampered by not having a high quality research university within the city proper or immediate suburbs imo. Also, form my experience MU grads prefer Chicago over Detroit anyway.
Despite Detroit being nearly 2X the size of StL they have the same number of Fortune 500s, 10.
Last edited by FalstaffBlues; 10-11-2019 at 10:49 AM..
I like Baltimore at the top because of the location.
I like StL second because of the human capital production between WashU and SLU and the momentum building between Cortex, BioStL, 39 North, NGA relocation and the North of Washington announcement. Also, it is a healthcare hub for a very large area and is the HQ for BJC, SSM, Mercy and Ascenscion.
Detroit is really hampered by not having a high quality research university within the city proper or immediate suburbs imo. Also, form my experience MU grads prefer Chicago over Detroit anyway.
Despite Detroit being nearly 2X the size of StL they have the same number of Fortune 500s, 10.
I'm certainly not a Detroit booster by any means but this is sort of misleading. Wayne State might not be an elite research institution, but it's still a quality research institution. Additionally, while Michigan (I'm guessing that's what you meant by "MU") isn't in the city proper or immediate suburbs, it's still has a large presence in the region. Im fairly comfortable in saying that its presence in the Detroit area matches Washington's presence in STL.
I'm certainly not a Detroit booster by any means but this is sort of misleading. Wayne State might not be an elite research institution, but it's still a quality research institution. Additionally, while Michigan (I'm guessing that's what you meant by "MU") isn't in the city proper or immediate suburbs, it's still has a large presence in the region. Im fairly comfortable in saying that its presence in the Detroit area matches Washington's presence in STL.
I'm sure MU has a major presence in the Detroit area, but it's still an hour drive from the urban core. Meanwhile, WUSTL is connected to the urban core by two light rail stations and is far more integrated into the urban economy of St. Louis.
I'm sure MU has a major presence in the Detroit area, but it's still an hour drive from the urban core. Meanwhile, WUSTL is connected to the urban core by two light rail stations and is far more integrated into the urban economy of St. Louis.
Again not a Detroit booster... but it's about 45 mins from downtown to downtown. Since you said urban core, I take that to mean the urban area and Ann Arbor to the urban area of Detroit is less than 30 mins.
Also Wayne State is being overlooked on the quality aspect.
Not saying Washinton isn't integrated into STL better than UM into Detroit (because it is), but that UM is so massive in research compared to Washington and has a large presence in the region, that its impact on Detroit is just as much as Washington's presence on STL.
Also Wayne State is being overlooked on the quality aspect.
I mean, is it really? Don't get me wrong, I went to a directional state school (going in debt on bachelors degrees is for suckers) and know how great they can be, but I think Wayne is being properly weighted.
It's not like I brought up Webster, UMSL, SIUE or MoBap.
I mean, is it really? Don't get me wrong, I went to a directional state school (going in debt on bachelors degrees is for suckers) and know how great they can be, but I think Wayne is being properly weighted.
It's not like I brought up Webster, UMSL, SIUE or MoBap.
Well the lack of a high quality research institution was brought up. I'm just trying to dispel that notion since 1. UM is in the area and 2. WSU is a quality school in the research field and that is one of their focal areas of study. They are top 100 in R&D expenditures.
This may come off as a bit harsh, but.. Are Detroit and St. Louis really that comparable to Baltimore? I understand that many portions of Baltimore have been subject to the same kind of urban blight. I know that the delta in crime between the three is insignificant. But, the Baltimore skyline is actually pretty nice. The inner harbor is really nice. There is high foot traffic and large volumes of pedestrians around downtown (even at night!). And, I understand that we all feel strongly about the resurgence of our local cuisine. I appreciate that cities are stressing locally sourced fare, that coffee shops are no longer just a European idea, and that food halls are great use of space. But, having a few new restaurants with executive chefs and popular restaurateurs doesn't make the end-to-end food scene fantastic all of the sudden. Baltimore is quite a bit ahead of the group in that way, too. If not in quality, then at the very least in volume and number of offerings accessible. I like to eat, so that's important to note.
If we want to debate future outlook, we can.. But I think Detroit and St. Louis have a long way to go before you can even have the comparative discussion.
This may come off as a bit harsh, but.. Are Detroit and St. Louis really that comparable to Baltimore? I understand that many portions of Baltimore have been subject to the same kind of urban blight. I know that the delta in crime between the three is insignificant. But, the Baltimore skyline is actually pretty nice. The inner harbor is really nice. There is high foot traffic and large volumes of pedestrians around downtown (even at night!). And, I understand that we all feel strongly about the resurgence of our local cuisine. I appreciate that cities are stressing locally sourced fare, that coffee shops are no longer just a European idea, and that food halls are great use of space. But, having a few new restaurants with executive chefs and popular restaurateurs doesn't make the end-to-end food scene fantastic all of the sudden. Baltimore is quite a bit ahead of the group in that way, too. If not in quality, then at the very least in volume and number of offerings accessible. I like to eat, so that's important to note.
If we want to debate future outlook, we can.. But I think Detroit and St. Louis have a long way to go before you can even have the comparative discussion.
Eh, I feel like Detroit is weird outlier in this comparison. Detroit is a huge metro with over 5 Million people. Its peer cities are, or should be, Philly, Boston, ATL, etc. Not StL and Baltimore.
Eh, I feel like Detroit is weird outlier in this comparison. Detroit is a huge metro with over 5 Million people. Its peer cities are, or should be, Philly, Boston, ATL, etc. Not StL and Baltimore.
If we extend the conversation to Metro areas, then I'd agree. I was operating under the assumption that we were comparing cities in a silo, which is why I think Baltimore is the outlier.
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