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I feel like even though they are very different... they are like cousin cities in a sort of way.
-They both have relatively similar city limit populations (though San Juan metro area is much larger)
-They both are in the tropics, out at sea within a few degrees of one another (18 and 21 N)
-They both are a part of US 20th century expansion, with different previous cultures still heavily present
Consider the following factors:
1. Urban Form/Neighborhoods: So, I've been in San Juan more recently, however my understanding is this. Honolulu, as a urban center, might have better urban form overall, and have a more functional and active downtown for after hours activity esp. than San Juan has. That being said, nowhere in Honolulu has the curb appeal or walkability that a place like Old San Juan does... and there are numerous vibrant and festive neighborhoods in San Juan outside there too.. Calle Loiza in Ocean Park, and Rio Piedras, for instance. So San Juan, by a little bit.
2. Arts/Culture: I think this is one San Juan will win. Honolulu may actually have a better collection of museums and cultural institutions, perhaps an advantage of the city's comparative wealth of late. That said, San Juan with it's history of art, Spanish connection, architecture/design, music, dance, etc. (for instance, having the most watched video from YouTube of any kind ever all time.. and Lin Manuel-Miranda and perhaps the most hotly demanded ticket for a stage play in modern history, being one of the places most directly associated with Salsa.. it just breathes as a culturally richer place, even if lacking in certain departments.
3. Attractions/Entertainment: This is one I think Honolulu will win. It just sort of has a longer tourist infrastructure I would say, based on marketing, history, etc. The resorts in Honolulu (Waikiki Beach, etc.) are more globally known IMO. And, primary attractions, for instance, Iolani Palace (the only royal palace in the United States), Dole Plantation, Pearl Harbor, I think are more well known and prominent on a national/world scale than attractions in San Juan itself. The forts in San Juan city itself are extremely prominent, however, I think they fall under a different category.
4. Safety/Comfort: Honolulu is going to win this one. I do hear some complaints about safety in certain parts of the city and inequality/homelessness. However, San Juan's crime rates are still higher overall.. to be fair, on Wikipedia, Honolulu's are listed at the metro and not city level which probably lowers things, but still, it's violent crime rate and everything else appears to be below what is typical for US major cities, while San Juan is above. That said, I think you can feel perfectly safe or comfortable in both (or find wrong areas). That said, that is also one regard in which I feel modestly more willing to take random risks in Honolulu (wandering more freely in evenings, stopping at random beaches), walking alone on beach in morning in say Waikiki, which I wouldn't necessarily do in Condado, unless there were more crowds around. However, that is not based on direct experiences with problems (I haven't had any), more based on statistical knowledge of crime trends, anecdotal stories, and economic differences between the two.
5. Traffic/Transit: Honolulu. Solidly IMO, in spite of the fact that San Juan DOES have a train line at this time (Tren Urbano). Honolulu should be opening theirs in the next couple years, and they also have a bus system with an apparent daily ridership of 239K. San Juan's, by comparison, sees only 35K a day, and misses critical junctures IMO. Also, traffic in San Juan is I believe worse on average, considering the fact that Puerto Rico holds the distinction of having more cars per square mile or street mile than any other country/territory in the world.
6. Location/Day Trips: This is one San Juan will win IMO. It goes without saying, San Juan IS less isolated. In fairness, there are some interesting spots on the island of Oahu, and there are other islands. However, that being said, I think there is more diversity of offering on the island of Puerto Rico, and over a dozen other countries located within 600 miles of it's city center. One could make the argument for Honolulu that it's an advantage to be more isolated, and I guess I can see that, but that is offset IMO by it being FAR more expensive to visit, a deficiency to note, at least on many people's budgets. For travel purposes, San Juan has nonstops to the following major cities: Toronto, Montreal, Chicago, Miami, Bogota, Philadelphia, Dallas, Frankfurt, Panama City, New York, Atlanta, Madrid, Washington, Boston, Houston.
Honolulu has nonstops to many major Asian centers, which is admittedly an advantage at a certain level... however that applies less to North American travelers I would think, and is quite expensive and removed still, and thus, I think San Juan's advantage still applies here.
7. Parks/Scenery: This is going to be a victory overall for Honolulu in my opinion, with the caveat that on a regional level, the two are competitive, and that the immediate placement and setting of San Juan (OSJ in particular) is stunning, perhaps the most stunning "immediate" setting of any city in the Americas (out on an island with water and coast surrounding and with rolling topography within the old city area). The reason I voted Honolulu then, is that outside of those nice beaches.. San Juan is relatively flat in and around it's immediate metro area. In addition, I would say that outside of the nice looking UPR Botanical Gardens, San Juan has a relative dearth of green spaces for a city of it's size. Within Honolulu city limits, I believe you can find paths rich with forest (even though as a whole I believe it is drier looking), and places like Diamond Head to walk up within a few miles of downtown. To get to more mountainous scenery or lengthy hiking paths from San Juan, you effectively have to drive an hour (by rental, as there isn't reliable and cheap transport to those places). In Honolulu on the other hand, you can hike from Waikiki to the top of Diamond Head and be back in Waikiki before lunch, which gives it the edge.
8. Food/Drink: Again, this is one where I admittedly know less about Hawaii food scene.. though I will say putting pineapple on pizza is increasingly sacrilege IMO... JK! But in general, I would say PR has a fantastic culinary scene, perhaps the best one at this time in the Caribbean. Wonderful native dishes, panaderias, and just a general attention to detail. The amount of produce available on the island, the alcoholic beverages invented there (pina colada), the coffee, juices, beans, etc. San Juan is gonna take this one, I'm pretty sure, in spite of some unique Hawaiian foods out there.
9. Overall Preference: So, I'll say it's pretty close, and it actually is (at 4-4). However, I think what it comes down to is, cost, and which has more appeal to me to revisit. I would say that if I had never been to either, knowing what I know now.. I might give a slight edge to Honolulu for a new visitor. However... for a repeat visit for myself, I would pick San Juan. And yes, part of that might be the ability to fly there for less than 25% of what I'd pay to fly to Honolulu, with less than 25% of the required travel time. And also being able to stay in an A location, and eat high quality meals for likely 50% or so of the price I would pay in Honolulu doesn't hurt, either. But beyond that even if prices and distances were comparable, there's something special about the pace, Latin culture, atmospheric old town, food, etc. present in San Juan. Heading there again in 7 weeks and eagerly anticipating it!
I voted San Juan, but I admit I'm biased. I've been to Honolulu before so it doesn't appeal to me as much. And I also absolutely love Latin culture and especially the music flooding out of Puerto Rico (reggaeton has taken over the world thanks to this tiny island).
As for your specifics:
1. Urban form/Neighborhoods: San Juan. Old San Juan looks beautiful, yet the city still has high rises like Honolulu.
2. Arts/culture: Definitely San Juan. See above for reggaeton and numerous Puerto Rican musicians/artists/actors.
3. Attractions/Entertainment: My personal bias leans towards to San Juan.
4. Safety/Comfort: No denying Honolulu easily wins this one.
5. Traffic/Transit: Not enough personal knowledge to answer, though I know San Juan at least has some form of a train.
6. Location/Day Trips: San Juan. Far less secluded.
7. Parks/Scenery: I'd assume Honolulu, but not enough personal knowledge.
8. Food/Drink: Tie for me. I love Hawaiian and East Asian foods just as much as Latin/Caribbean food.
9. Overall Preference: San Juan for me easily with the Latin culture and less feeling of seclusion. It's an island, but at least it's close to so many other islands and the mainland.
I love Latin culture also, and I think Puerto Rico offers perhaps a more unique and less mainland US vibe on the whole. In addition, I think the proximity helps, too.
To your comment on cityscapes: That's why I leaned toward Honolulu too. However, I think what most (myself included) don't know much about are the neighborhoods outside of that. On my upcoming visit, I am looking forward to spending a decent amount of time (an hour or two at least) in at least a couple of the following: Rio Piedras, Ocean Park, Isla Verde, Santurce, Hato Rey, Miramar, Bayamon, Catano, Condado, Puerta de Tierra. Right there: At least 10 neighborhoods within a 15 minute drive (or in some cases, public transit) of Old San Juan that look at least relatively walkable and interesting.
I also wonder how the skylines of these two compare. Well, I guess I know that Honolulu's is more vertical. That said, I feel like San Juan's might be denser over a longer period of space overall. This photo I attached is from my last fly in (June), and while this is only a small area, I was immediately impressed by just how structurally dense SJ is. Honolulu's skyline doesn't seem quite as consistent, or doesn't seem to be vertical for quite as long.. but that could just be my recent visit bias.. or the fact that Honolulu's while taller, that sort of makes it seem smaller on other sides... the tallest building in all of San Juan is like 259 feet, so it's more consistent throughout. I'm sure there's some link out there comparing total number of mid rises or structures over 100 feet.. but I'm too lazy to look it up at this point.
5. Traffic/Transit: Not enough personal knowledge to answer, though I know San Juan at least has some form of a train.
9. Overall Preference: San Juan for me easily with the Latin culture and less feeling of seclusion. It's an island, but at least it's close to so many other islands and the mainland.
5: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/09/the-...o-us-news.html
I have little doubt with Honolulu on this one. I can say that driving there didn't seem quite as intense as the roads in other Latin American centers, such as Rio and BsAs. That said... if you haven't driven in LatAm before.. it will be an experience! The actual volume of traffic wasn't that bad, but the aggressiveness of drivers will certainly be more than what you experience even in say Miami or Atlanta. Once you get out around the country... not that bad though. But... I drove through the Minillas Tunnel and Hato Rey (CBD) and Condado at rush hour.. and somehow lived to tell about it lol!
6. To this point.. I wonder how much San Juan can use this to their benefit, both economic and tourism related. San Juan is around 250 miles removed from Santo Domingo, the largest metro in the Caribbean.. and just over 500 miles from Caracas, which, were it not for the very sad turn of things in the past few decades, would likely be an Alpha global city at the same or similar standing to say Buenos Aires or Santiago. I'm guessing regional cooperation hasn't been a regular thing here.. ever. But, a rising tide raises all boats mindset might be beneficial here.
Honolulu has the better skyline probably, but I think for street level urbanity, SJ would win. AFAIK, nothing in Honolulu compares to Old San Juan and then there are still plenty of other walkable neighborhoods in the core of SJ as well.
As far as SJ feeding off its neighbors, this won't be possible until the US views PR as an asset. Most federal administrations scoff at the idea of supporting an island full of the wrong brown minority that isn't even a state. Hawaii has browner people, but they're the right kind of ancestry for them. Latinos are not seen in the same light as Asians in American culture/politics. Therefore, until that changes, PR will always be ignored and its interests will never be supported. As a US Territory, it can't trade and make relations without the US federal govt's approval. It will never get the approval needed to become the glowing capital of the Caribbean Islands that it can be with current US politics. If it ever becomes a US state (which I'm strongly in favor of because they currently epitomize taxation without representation which was literally why we fought the Brits) then I could see more incentive for the US govt to prop up its business. In the way that Honolulu is the Pacific catch-all for East Asian culture making its way to the US and serving as a cultural/immigration center for East Asia, San Juan could do the same for the Caribbean Latin culture/immigration/trade/etc coming from places like the DR and Cuba South America. But ultimately, this will never be possible until the federal govt views PR as a legitimate entity.
In the way that Honolulu is the Pacific catch-all for East Asian culture making its way to the US and serving as a cultural/immigration center for East Asia, San Juan could do the same for the Caribbean Latin culture/immigration/trade/etc coming from places like the DR and Cuba South America. But ultimately, this will never be possible until the federal govt views PR as a legitimate entity.
South Florida already serves this purpose pretty well. And PR benefits from tax haven-like advantages that I don't believe it could retain as a state. Anyway, I don't really know much about this topic, but just presenting the counterargument talking points.
South Florida already serves this purpose pretty well. And PR benefits from tax haven-like advantages that I don't believe it could retain as a state. Anyway, I don't really know much about this topic, but just presenting the counterargument talking points.
True. But relating back to this thread, if San Juan could become more prosperous and emulate Miami, I believe it would be even more appealing to visitors. There is plenty of room in the US economy for Miami and San Juan to have connections to the Caribbean and South America. The Southwest (Texas, Phoenix, Las Vegas, California) is the hub for Mexico and Central America. Miami could definitely share its prosperity with San Juan for the rest of Latin America. If business in PR was more promising and the island were safer and more developed, it could definitely be equivalent to a Honolulu. Geography and weather are the same, but San Juan's economy and safety lags far behind that of Honolulu. Besides those two facts, I think a lot comes down to personal preference. I prefer PR for its Latin history and culture, but I could see how people would prefer Honolulu for its safety, economy, global trade presence, local culture, etc.
One thing that could hold PR back from having the same visitor appeal as Honolulu, though, is that Honolulu and Hawaii as a whole are extremely unique. PR shares some history and uniqueness with other Caribbean locales. There are other places nearby that aren't all entirely different. There really is nowhere else like Hawaii and Honolulu on Earth.
It's interesting to me because while Honolulu is dominating the poll, San Juan is really dominating the comments.
I'm curious to hear from other/some people that have been to both Honolulu and San Juan, and to see how that changes perception or preference. Other than safety, which I'll admit is a biggie, I think some of this is just as much about a reputation problem for Latin America (among some in US) that includes Puerto Rico and San Juan.
I would be willing to say though that, while Honolulu doesn't have anything urbanity wise quite like OSJ, Honolulu as a city I think is overall more walkable, when you consider outside of Santurce and San Juan Antiguo districts (although what's interesting is that I believe that outside of those two was not actually even considered a part of the city of San Juan until the 1960 census. Prior to that time, the entirety of San Juan was on just 6 square miles... and that 6 square miles had a peak population of 225K. The reason I say more walkable is that it seems like there is more mixed use spread across the city of Honolulu than in San Juan outside of those neighborhoods, as well as more pedestrian friendly streets, and.. at least as of when Honolulu's metro opens, a firmly superior public transit that is already more heavily utilized.
I'd also tend to agree with the uniqueness argument, as there are a number of places like SJ within a few hundred miles of it, meanwhile, Honolulu is a unique city in the world in how isolated it is and the mix of cultures present there, and in the landscape it's in (Auckland is in Polynesia, technically too, but feels much less so since it isn't in the tropics). There's also nowhere else where you can see Pearl Harbor, or Waikiki Beach, or even places like Iolani Palace or Dole Plantation or the North Shore.
That being said, I think had more people been to San Juan, or if it didn't have such an unknown or not positive reputation with Maria, etc., the poll would not be nearly as lopsided.
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