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The "booming" 20 years before Cleveland is not accurate. You have to go back to 1870 the last time Buffalo was the more populous city (by about 25,00 people ... 117,000 vs. 92,000). They both boomed during the same exact period (1880-1930 ... with Cleveland's boom being bigger).
Considering Buffalo peaked at about 560,000 and Cleveland at 900,000 that means one city was about 22% the size it would be and the other was 10%. Meaning that Buffalo was more complete pre streetcar than Cleveland.
Last edited by btownboss4; 11-03-2019 at 07:03 AM..
Very similar cities. I go back 'n forth in wondering whether Buffalo or Milwaukee are the most similar to Cleveland. As the OP noted, Cleveland has a much stronger downtown, employment and energy-wise.
But Buffalo has a tremendous advantage over Cleveland in having its most vibrant, walkable residential neighborhoods like Allentown and Elmwood Village, directly adjacent to its downtown core, where in Cleveland, there's a barrier to such neighborhoods: to the East is a 3-4 mile barrier of light industry and crumbling, abandoned huge factory buildings (some being repurposed into live-work loft apts) induced by railroad lines which encircle downtown and run along the lake shore. After that there are vast neighborhoods, like Hough and Fairfax which are in various states of abandonment, decay and rebirth (both areas have had the mini-mansion, townhouse boom of the 1990s and early 2000s; partly due to the presence of gigantic Cleveland Clinic) -- all this until you reach thriving University Circle.
To the West, of course, one has to cross the Cuyahoga River and its wide valley -- aka: the Flats -- before reaching booming Ohio City. Though Ohio City is less than a mile away from downtown, and one can walk over 1 of 2 bridges rather easily to get there, a barrier exists, nonetheless. RTA Rapid transit gets you to both University Circle/Little Italy as well as Ohio City very quickly and efficiently.
Buffalo's Allentown is well served by its Metro Rail line (which appears to be expanding 7 miles to the North ... yay!). However the rail line doesn't serve excellent Elmwood Village too well -- only tangentially.
I could live in either one, even considering Buffalo's snow situation. I'm an east sider in Cleveland so I could get used to it. Love Letchworth State Park, similar to our Rocky River metro park, but Letchworth is much bigger. I would have to say Buffalo is very similar to Cleveland in almost every way.
It looks like Buffalo's Allentown area is probably the most urban single residential neighborhood in either city. I'm not an expert in either city, but it looks like Buffalo has more "prewar" walk-up apartment buildings in Allentown and to a lesser extent Elmwood Village. Cleveland has some prewar apartment buildings near Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, but they are more in the streetcar suburb vernacular.
It looks like Buffalo's Allentown area is probably the most urban single residential neighborhood in either city. I'm not an expert in either city, but it looks like Buffalo has more "prewar" walk-up apartment buildings in Allentown and to a lesser extent Elmwood Village. Cleveland has some prewar apartment buildings near Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights, but they are more in the streetcar suburb vernacular.
Not sure how you define "urban". In the loose definition of urban "feel", I would say Cleveland has a number of neighborhoods that match and, perhaps exceed, Allentown. Shaker Square has the most multiple units of any neighborhood inside Cleveland and Edgewater also has quite a few. Both likely surpass Allentown in this regard. Allentown does have, along the Allen Street corridor, a number of older mixed use apt-over-retail establishments... It appears to be a great walkable neighborhood
But Ohio City has such areas too, although I'll admit they tend to be broken up by such institutions as Lutheran Hospital and St. Ignatius HS. However I don't see any one retail strip in Allentown as built up or dense as the few blocks of Market Square in/around Lorain & W. 25th. Not only is there plenty of retail off the strip in Ohio City, the northern flank of the neighborhood, esp along Detroit Ave, has seen many new low-to-mid-rise apartment infill built in recent years -- and this growth is still going strong. And now similar development is coming to the OC's southern flank along Lorain Ave, though as yet not as strong as it is along Detroit Ave. The Harbor Bay office/apartment/retail TOD complex at Market Square, adjacent to the RTA Red Line Rapid station will up the ante...
... but this is in no way a knock at Allentown, which appears to be a great neighborhood -- my kind of urban neighborhood, which I definitely will visit when I make it to Buffalo, a city which, as noted, is very similar to Cleveland and has a ton of aspects going for it.
Very similar cities. I go back 'n forth in wondering whether Buffalo or Milwaukee are the most similar to Cleveland. As the OP noted, Cleveland has a much stronger downtown, employment and energy-wise.
But Buffalo has a tremendous advantage over Cleveland in having its most vibrant, walkable residential neighborhoods like Allentown and Elmwood Village, directly adjacent to its downtown core, where in Cleveland, there's a barrier to such neighborhoods: to the East is a 3-4 mile barrier of light industry and crumbling, abandoned huge factory buildings (some being repurposed into live-work loft apts) induced by railroad lines which encircle downtown and run along the lake shore. After that there are vast neighborhoods, like Hough and Fairfax which are in various states of abandonment, decay and rebirth (both areas have had the mini-mansion, townhouse boom of the 1990s and early 2000s; partly due to the presence of gigantic Cleveland Clinic) -- all this until you reach thriving University Circle.
To the West, of course, one has to cross the Cuyahoga River and its wide valley -- aka: the Flats -- before reaching booming Ohio City. Though Ohio City is less than a mile away from downtown, and one can walk over 1 of 2 bridges rather easily to get there, a barrier exists, nonetheless. RTA Rapid transit gets you to both University Circle/Little Italy as well as Ohio City very quickly and efficiently.
Buffalo's Allentown is well served by its Metro Rail line (which appears to be expanding 7 miles to the North ... yay!). However the rail line doesn't serve excellent Elmwood Village too well -- only tangentially.
While some Buffalo residential neighborhoods are basically islands, separated from others by industry or geography (South Buffalo, Iron Island, Lovejoy, Kaisertown, etc), at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the city neighborhoods are adjacent to each other and walkable, with few if any significant barriers between them, and even those barriers are being reduced.
Buffalo has kept its continuous, dense residential neighborhoods mainly intact from downtown for roughly 6 miles north, to beyond the city line, with many areas dating back to the mid 1800s, primarily West of Main Street which diagonally bisects the city. The wealthiest neighborhoods run straight up the middle of the city from downtown, on either side of Delaware Avenue. Where there are/were former industrial areas on the West Side, they are being quickly converted to residential or incubator space, especially along Niagara Street and in Black Rock, adding to the density. Residential has also been expanding South and East, adjacent to downtown, with conversions and infill expanding these continuously walkable communities.
Last edited by RocketSci; 11-04-2019 at 09:30 AM..
While some Buffalo residential neighborhoods are basically islands, separated from others by industry or geography (South Buffalo, Iron Island, Lovejoy, Kaisertown, etc), at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the city neighborhoods are adjacent to each other and walkable, with few if any significant barriers between them, and even those barriers are being reduced.
Buffalo has kept its continuous, dense residential neighborhoods mainly intact from downtown for roughly 6 miles north, to beyond the city line, with many areas dating back to the mid 1800s, primarily West of Main Street which diagonally bisects the city. The wealthiest neighborhoods run straight up the middle of the city from downtown, on either side of Delaware Avenue. Where there are/were former industrial areas on the West Side, they are being quickly converted to residential or incubator space, especially along Niagara Street and in Black Rock, adding to the density. Residential has also been expanding South and East, adjacent to downtown, with conversions and infill expanding these continuously walkable communities.
Once upon a time, early in the 20th Century, till around the 1929 stock market crash leading to the Depression, Cleveland's eastern corridor looked like what Allentown and neighboring Elmwood Village generally looks like today... Euclid was named as Millionaire's Row because of all the huge Victorian mansions lining the street from around today's Playhouse Square to E. 40th Street. (interestingly Euclid Ave streetcars were rerouted 1-block south to Prospect Ave from E. 13th to E. 55th so as to keep the rail car noise away from Euclid's well-heeled residents)... Only 2 mansions remain: the Mather House on CSU's campus and the former University Club which now hosts the Cleveland Children's museum. At Euclid & E. 55th St, the old Pennsylvania RR maintained its main passenger station (the Pennsy RR refused to enter the Van Sweringen's 1920s-built grand Union Station at Terminal Tower on Public Square, as the massive project was largely underwritten, and was to be utilized primarily, by arch rival New York Central RR -- Pennsy kept its E. 55th Street passenger station running well into the 1960s till around the time the railroad went bankrupt). Surrounding the PA RR station along Euclid was a dense mixed-use apts-over-retail neighborhood, that extended from E. 40th past the railroad (which was elevated in the 1910s) to around E. 68th... and beyond. Practically all of this development has been bulldozed into Cleveland history leaving mainly empty lots -- the rock-oriented Agora theater maintains one such building on Euclid just west of E. 55th.
Prospect, meanwhile, was loaded with upper middle class Victorian-era housing, including a number of row homes... one of the few left is a small group of beautiful/well-maintained 1870s row homes now branded: The Brownstone, a B&B. A few other homes from that era exist along Prospect, though now amidst cheap light industry, car lots, etc, and are re-purposed as homes for small businesses themselves.
... all this changed as industry, more and more, began to mutate around the area, beginning in the WWI era, but really accelerating during/after WWII. During this same era, really as early as WWI, the wealthy began bolting Millionaire's Row for dreamy estates located up in the hills above the soot and smog of industry: the so-called "Heights" first Cleveland Heights, then Shaker Heights then further into Van-planned estates in Beachwood, Pepper Pike and Hunting Valley, among others.
Then, in the 1960s, the State of Ohio took over small, private Fenn College and made it the foundational unit of its much larger Cleveland State University. So even though the Euclid corridor (including Prospect) from around E. 30th through E. 55th and beyond have maintained, and even expanded, light industry in the area, the portion from Playhouse Square to the Inner Belt freeway -- roughly E. 28th Street -- has been developed into a college town for CSU, with new dorms, apartments and college-y type retail... This CSU college-town development has also expanded 1 block north to Chester Ave, as well... It has been positive, overall, as it has turned a cold, concrete commuter campus into a handsome, vibrant residential campus... with grass, even!
... but it could have remained and been like Buffalo's Allentown/Elmwood area. Such is life and a distinctly Cleveland urban mindset.
Not sure how you define "urban". In the loose definition of urban "feel", I would say Cleveland has a number of neighborhoods that match and, perhaps exceed, Allentown. Shaker Square has the most multiple units of any neighborhood inside Cleveland and Edgewater also has quite a few. Both likely surpass Allentown in this regard. Allentown does have, along the Allen Street corridor, a number of older mixed use apt-over-retail establishments... It appears to be a great walkable neighborhood
But Ohio City has such areas too, although I'll admit they tend to be broken up by such institutions as Lutheran Hospital and St. Ignatius HS. However I don't see any one retail strip in Allentown as built up or dense as the few blocks of Market Square in/around Lorain & W. 25th. Not only is there plenty of retail off the strip in Ohio City, the northern flank of the neighborhood, esp along Detroit Ave, has seen many new low-to-mid-rise apartment infill built in recent years -- and this growth is still going strong. And now similar development is coming to the OC's southern flank along Lorain Ave, though as yet not as strong as it is along Detroit Ave. The Harbor Bay office/apartment/retail TOD complex at Market Square, adjacent to the RTA Red Line Rapid station will up the ante...
... but this is in no way a knock at Allentown, which appears to be a great neighborhood -- my kind of urban neighborhood, which I definitely will visit when I make it to Buffalo, a city which, as noted, is very similar to Cleveland and has a ton of aspects going for it.
I basically agree with all of this. But in the narrow "old world" architectural sense Allentown seems like something of a cross between Ohio City (particularly the narrower streets of Lorraine Ave) and Little Italy. Allentown seems to have a slightly tighter vernacular than Ohio City with it's homes packed on smaller lots and the tightly built walkup apartment buildings mixed in. All in all, the three areas are very similar.
I basically agree with all of this. But in the narrow "old world" architectural sense Allentown seems like something of a cross between Ohio City (particularly the narrower streets of Lorraine Ave) and Little Italy. Allentown seems to have a slightly tighter vernacular than Ohio City with it's homes packed on smaller lots and the tightly built walkup apartment buildings mixed in. All in all, the three areas are very similar.
Another difference with Allentown is that it is completely surrounded by other densely built and populated neighborhoods, without always a clear-cut definition of what the dividing lines are. Lower West Side, West Village, West Side, Elmwood-Bryant, Delaware District, Medical Center - all are dense areas adjacent to Allentown that all flow together.
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