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I am graduating this fall and looking for Entry level IT work. I currently live in FL and want to move out. I've looked all over the map (US) and have confused myself on what I want. I think I need to pick a couple cities and just apply to jobs.
Here is a wish list:
-Outdoor activities (mtb, hiking, camping, kayaking, parks, etc)
-Close to mountains. The closer the better, but I could be happy making weekend trips up to 1-2 hours away.
-Not too dreary, I like the sun to be out, but not the horrible heat and humidity found in FL.
-Overall, I love the seasons and miss it, but I do not enjoy a long cold winter or a long hot summer like in FL.
-Cities that feel like it was built around nature, rather then a slab of concrete. If that makes sense...
-decent transportation: public transportation and bike friendly cities.
-Im 26, so I'd prefer a younger city
-Also I'm not super liberal, but I do not like living in an ultra conservative city.
-Friendly and laid back.
- A big one is cost of living. I'd like to be able to afford to own a home someday... I prefer medium or low cost of living.
Probably could list more but I'll stop there
I've been looking everywhere. Salt Lake City, Denver, Atlanta, Charlotte, and at smaller cities like Greenville SC, Chatanooga, Roanoke VA, etc
Mostly lower Eastern states, because that is where I grew up and am most familiar with. But I'm trying to be open to anything...
Here are some of my quick thoughts on some of places mentioned.
SLC: Mormoms, bad air quality, cold weather similar to Denver, more affordable then Denver but smaller and less "vibrant", closer to the mountains then Denver, more conservative
Denver: My brother lives there, good city transportation, close to the Rocky mountains which are amazing, worried about cost of living, and the fact that it snows from Oct to May has me worried about the climate.
Charlotte: Better cost of living, milder winters, farther from the mountains, less outdoor activities then Denver, but still a lot too do. Smokey mountains just have a different vibe. I've heard public transportation is non-existent here?
Atlanta: I'm interesting in this city, but honestly I'm not sure I'd like it over Charlotte. Not sure which one has more outdoor activities. Charlotte is located more center to the smokey mountains. I think Cost of living is higher then Charlotte.
Grenville SC: This city seems super neat, but small and I'm worried about finding work. Its affordable and is closer to the mountains then Charlotte.
I lean towards the more eastern states listed becuase of a milder climate and better cost of living, but I lean towards Colorado for the Rocky Mountains.
I know I just said a lot. Fill free to add any suggestions.
Last edited by Brenton93; 11-14-2019 at 05:57 PM..
I live in Salt Lake City, I’m Liberal and non Mormon. The Mormon thing really is a non issue if you live in SLC, only around 25-30% of SLC proper is Mormon. Even then it’s not a big deal, they are nice people and great neighbors. We currently have an openly gay mayor and a recent poll showed that 57% of residents consider themselves liberal and only 21% conservative, we have not elected a Republican mayor since the 70s, it’s really not conservative like people think.
The mountains are much closer than they are in Denver. Salt lake has the youngest average age of the cities you listed. We have a pretty good light rail system here that makes getting around the city easy, better than most cities this size.
Air quality is a valid concern, it’s usually bad for a few days during the winter. Cost of living is increasing quickly with the strong economic growth here, a new airport is under construction and there are 7 new high rises going up in downtown soon. I love it here and feel like it’s definitely underrated.
Denver's got the best balance of outdoor access and big-city amenities in the Intermountain West. Yes, it's gotten expensive, but it's still cheaper than the coastal metros. If you're not carrying a huge debt load and can pull down decent money in IT, you can afford to live here.
SLC is a good alternative to Denver, but it's not perfect. The mountains are closer, but the inversions are no joke, the current airport is underwhelming, and when it comes to nightlife and amenities, SLC is a major cowtown.
IMNSHO, the Mormons in Utah are no more or less worrisome or annoying than the pervasive evangelism of the southeast. If you're not Southern Baptist, or to a lesser extent Methodist or Catholic, you may as well be a leper in the Bible Belt.
I personally have no desire to ever live in the southeastern US again. Don't care for the politics, the religiosity, or the climate. Charlotte and Atlanta, while drier than Florida, are still uncomfortably hot and humid in the summer. If you truly want to escape humidity, then Denver, SLC, Boise, and Reno are your best bets.
Denver's got the best balance of outdoor access and big-city amenities in the Intermountain West. Yes, it's gotten expensive, but it's still cheaper than the coastal metros. If you're not carrying a huge debt load and can pull down decent money in IT, you can afford to live here.
SLC is a good alternative to Denver, but it's not perfect. The mountains are closer, but the inversions are no joke, the current airport is underwhelming, and when it comes to nightlife and amenities, SLC is a major cowtown.
IMNSHO, the Mormons in Utah are no more or less worrisome or annoying than the pervasive evangelism of the southeast. If you're not Southern Baptist, or to a lesser extent Methodist or Catholic, you may as well be a leper in the Bible Belt.
I personally have no desire to ever live in the southeastern US again. Don't care for the politics, the religiosity, or the climate. Charlotte and Atlanta, while drier than Florida, are still uncomfortably hot and humid in the summer. If you truly want to escape humidity, then Denver, SLC, Boise, and Reno are your best bets.
Seems like Denver is called a cowtown a lot, you’re the only person I’ve seen call SLC a cowtown and more than once. I don’t see it. As I said a new airport is under construction, the current one is underwhelming compared to Denver yes, SLC is smaller. Which amenities is SLC missing?
I don't know that Denver would be the best option. It's true that the mountains are nearby (1 hr away) and it definitely checks the outdoor activity box. But it's certainly not affordable, it's the most expensive city for housing in the US that's not a coastal "elite" city like Boston or Seattle. $400,000 gets you a rather crappy house that's either dinky and small or needs work. It's affordable as long as you stay in an apartment or smaller condo. I don't care to do this myself, hence I won't buy a house as the value just isn't there for what's available.
It's also very much a paved over slab of concrete, at least until you get to the far western edge burbs. It's dense so there's biking and public transportation, but part of the deal of being next to the mountains is people go there to get their outdoor fix, so there hasn't been investment in a city park system. The big parks are all remnants of the 1890s... Stuff does not grow well either (google eastern Colorado to see what it would look like naturally), so it's harder to have greenery than in the east. Denver's also a very active city; personalities lean more towards competitive and busy rather than laid back and easy going. There's pluses and minuses to this.
Mountains are very scenic, but IMO it's public land that's key for activities. Outside of skiing and hiking, there's not much you do right on the side of the mountain, a lot of the activities are in the hills by the mountains. Honestly, there's more recreational options in a national forest than there is in a national park like the Smokies. Generally smaller cities are going to get you easier outdoor access and better affordability, so long as they have the job you want.
Albuquerque might be a better fit for your criteria out west. There's smaller cities that would work well too, but basically all of CO along the front range is pretty darn pricey these days. In the east take a look at Arkansas and Missouri as well. Tons of outdoor activities, pretty sunny, 4 seasons without harsh winters, and they are super affordable.
Denver, itself is about as left-wing as you get.. It is when you leave the city limits it gets more conservative. But, the same can be said almost for Portland, Seattle and many other liberal meccas. Once you get out of Seattle and especially when you get to the South Sound and even Everett it gets more moderate and even can get very conservative . No bargain there. I lived in Jefferson County which was the most conservative county in the Denver metro, but I will tell you it is also the most boring place on Earth if you are a single guy with no kids and don't go to church, etc. There is a trade-off. Denver's cowtown days are long gone and it is much more a yuppie/hipstery kind of town than a cow-town now. Instead of honky tonks there are breweries and instead of stockyards there are doggy boutique shops.
In all honest, from what you describe Charlotte may be the best way to go. The city center is pretty liberal, but it does have a mix of more conservative people from outlying areas who reside and work in the city and just felt a bit more moderate to me. Atlanta I would think is pretty liberal, but never lived there and cannot comment. I have heard some of the suburbs are as blood red conservative as you get. But, Atlanta I hear is pretty liberal and predominately African American population, which usually indicates a politically more liberal city.
Don't fool yourself about heat and humidity. After spending some time in the summer in Tampa and living the summer in Charlotte, Nashville and driving through Georgia I will say the heat and humidity in Charlotte and Atlanta would be every bit as bad as Florida. Maybe, not as long lasting as South Florida, but even South Florida cools down during the Autumn and Winter months. To be honest, that is what I like about FLorida while we are freezing here in Tennessee , it is like 75-80F and perfect temps in South Florida.
Denver, itself is about as left-wing as you get.. It is when you leave the city limits it gets more conservative. But, the same can be said almost for Portland, Seattle and many other liberal meccas. Once you get out of Seattle and especially when you get to the South Sound and even Everett it gets more moderate and even can get very conservative . No bargain there. I lived in Jefferson County which was the most conservative county in the Denver metro, but I will tell you it is also the most boring place on Earth if you are a single guy with no kids and don't go to church, etc. There is a trade-off. Denver's cowtown days are long gone and it is much more a yuppie/hipstery kind of town than a cow-town now. Instead of honky tonks there are breweries and instead of stockyards there are doggy boutique shops.
In all honest, from what you describe Charlotte may be the best way to go. The city center is pretty liberal, but it does have a mix of more conservative people from outlying areas who reside and work in the city and just felt a bit more moderate to me. Atlanta I would think is pretty liberal, but never lived there and cannot comment. I have heard some of the suburbs are as blood red conservative as you get. But, Atlanta I hear is pretty liberal and predominately African American population, which usually indicates a politically more liberal city.
Don't fool yourself about heat and humidity. After spending some time in the summer in Tampa and living the summer in Charlotte, Nashville and driving through Georgia I will say the heat and humidity in Charlotte and Atlanta would be every bit as bad as Florida. Maybe, not as long lasting as South Florida, but even South Florida cools down during the Autumn and Winter months. To be honest, that is what I like about FLorida while we are freezing here in Tennessee , it is like 75-80F and perfect temps in South Florida.
When I visited Denver I didnt notice it being too "liberal" for me, but I see Portland definitely being a place I may not want to live. My two biggest concerns is the Cost of Living, and the fact it can snow from Oct to May. Thats a huge part of the year to deal with snow and make it hard to get out of the city.
I spent 10 years near Winston-Salemo as a kid and FL kicked my butt for the long hot summers. Sure, it can get just as hot there, but even Denver hit almost 100 degrees this summers (differance would be the dryer air). I like the dryer are though, but not the long winters. I miss the seasons and the nature/mountains of the area around GA, SC, and NC. Also, it rains so much in the evening in FL that most days I feel trapped in the house after work.
For work, Denver is good, but isolated, while Charlotte is surrounded by other cities I could easily move to for work.
Its a hard toss up for me between the more eastern or western states.
If you are easy going and can handle transition decently well, I wouldn't put so much stock into how a place fits your plans 5/10/15 years from now. Just live in the moment and don't worry so much about being near other cities that you could move to, or even whether you can afford a place to buy. If you're starting out your career you can just rent and decide for yourself down the line if you want to stay or move elsewhere. IT is a very mobile career and you are still young!
Denver and SLC make plenty of sense. The weather could be an issue, only you can really determine if that's a dealbreaker or not. I moved from FL to Chicago years ago and did not mind the winters too much....definitely adapted to it quickly...but then again I was always more of a cold-blooded type and hate the summer climate in FL.
Charlotte public transit is decent-to-good for a southern city. There is a high likelihood that where you live and work would allow the transit to be very adequate for your needs.
I am graduating this fall and looking for Entry level IT work. I currently live in FL and want to move out. I've looked all over the map (US) and have confused myself on what I want. I think I need to pick a couple cities and just apply to jobs.
Here is a wish list:
-Outdoor activities (mtb, hiking, camping, kayaking, parks, etc)
-Close to mountains. The closer the better, but I could be happy making weekend trips up to 1-2 hours away.
-Not too dreary, I like the sun to be out, but not the horrible heat and humidity found in FL.
-Overall, I love the seasons and miss it, but I do not enjoy a long cold winter or a long hot summer like in FL.
-Cities that feel like it was built around nature, rather then a slab of concrete. If that makes sense...
-decent transportation: public transportation and bike friendly cities.
-Im 26, so I'd prefer a younger city
-Also I'm not super liberal, but I do not like living in an ultra conservative city.
-Friendly and laid back.
- A big one is cost of living. I'd like to be able to afford to own a home someday... I prefer medium or low cost of living.
Probably could list more but I'll stop there
I've been looking everywhere. Salt Lake City, Denver, Atlanta, Charlotte, and at smaller cities like Greenville SC, Chatanooga, Roanoke VA, etc
Mostly lower Eastern states, because that is where I grew up and am most familiar with. But I'm trying to be open to anything...
Here are some of my quick thoughts on some of places mentioned.
SLC: Mormoms, bad air quality, cold weather similar to Denver, more affordable then Denver but smaller and less "vibrant", closer to the mountains then Denver, more conservative
Denver: My brother lives there, good city transportation, close to the Rocky mountains which are amazing, worried about cost of living, and the fact that it snows from Oct to May has me worried about the climate.
Charlotte: Better cost of living, milder winters, farther from the mountains, less outdoor activities then Denver, but still a lot too do. Smokey mountains just have a different vibe. I've heard public transportation is non-existent here?
Atlanta: I'm interesting in this city, but honestly I'm not sure I'd like it over Charlotte. Not sure which one has more outdoor activities. Charlotte is located more center to the smokey mountains. I think Cost of living is higher then Charlotte.
Grenville SC: This city seems super neat, but small and I'm worried about finding work. Its affordable and is closer to the mountains then Charlotte.
I lean towards the more eastern states listed becuase of a milder climate and better cost of living, but I lean towards Colorado for the Rocky Mountains.
I know I just said a lot. Fill free to add any suggestions.
Atlanta would be a great choice based on your criteria.
When I visited Denver I didnt notice it being too "liberal" for me, but I see Portland definitely being a place I may not want to live. My two biggest concerns is the Cost of Living, and the fact it can snow from Oct to May. Thats a huge part of the year to deal with snow and make it hard to get out of the city.
I spent 10 years near Winston-Salemo as a kid and FL kicked my butt for the long hot summers. Sure, it can get just as hot there, but even Denver hit almost 100 degrees this summers (differance would be the dryer air). I like the dryer are though, but not the long winters. I miss the seasons and the nature/mountains of the area around GA, SC, and NC. Also, it rains so much in the evening in FL that most days I feel trapped in the house after work.
For work, Denver is good, but isolated, while Charlotte is surrounded by other cities I could easily move to for work.
Its a hard toss up for me between the more eastern or western states.
Well, Denver's liberalness is a little deceptive from the outside, but after spending time in various neighborhoods and hanging out at various establishments, I can say it has much of the staunch liberal element you will see in Portland/Seattle, but it appears more subtle from the outside. I pretty much ousted from two different neighborhood bars because I wouldn't accept their views on socialism, hatred of Republicans and every other militant piece of liberal dogma they tried shoving down my throat. One neighborhood bar was having a fundraiser for Planned Parenthood. They were shoving all their views about abortion on me and I said, "NICE MEETING YOU FOLKS, NOT COMING BACK TO THIS PLACE. I WASN't SHOVING MY VIEWS DOWN YOUR THROAT". People just want to go to bar , drink, eat relax and not be indoctrinated into someone's political beliefs. Another time I met the co-owner of another bar, he found out I was from Oregon (oh must have thought I am super leftist) and told me he wanted to buy me a drink. I thought that was very nice, we sat down and had a conversation. This is where things went sour as he started screaming about injustice, his hatred of Trump, talking about how capitalism is evil and then trashed me saying my small struggling family business needs to pay more taxes and socialism will save the world. He saw I was irritated and challenged his views and, well, let's say, after that he refused to talk to me and I got dirty looks from the other employees and left. I had no desire to talk politics, but man, people in Denver, love getting into it with it. THey may act all modest and friendly at first, but its an act. In Portland and Seattle, there is no Midwestern phony modesty, people just are pretty direct, but the mindset is the same. In fact, I found more people in Seattle to be less polarizing on political stuff, especially if you are a capitalist or gun owner.
Look at how Denver votes and the demographics of its political base. It's one of the bluest counties in the USA. It is true the farther out of central Denver you go the moder moderate it gets, but it is really not much different than Portland or Seattle. Don't be fooled by the lack of grungy people or the Antifa zealots. It doesn't have the radical nutjobs that Portland has, but overall the population is staunchly liberal.
Even Portland and Seattle have a much more moderate base if you can just fizzle out the loud mouth radicals that parade around the street and wreck havoc. The only reason they have such power in Portland is Portland's permissive government. Portland didn't use to be like that. The Portland PD was notorious for kicking the crap out of trouble makers (too much to be honest) and now it has gone the other extreme.
Denver is just as liberal as Portland, but just more civil about it. Let me put it that way, if I can. Being a native Oregonian, I can say Oregonians can be radical on all sides. Oregon also has one of the largest and most active number of White Supremacist groups in the country.
Now, here is what I don't get. You say you hate Florida because it rains too much and you feel trapped. Well, after living in North Carolina I can say I never been in a place that rains that much and I have been in the jungles of Africa. it was downpouring monsoon and there was times driving on the freeways I just prayed that I could survive. When I was in Florida, even during the Summer, it would rain heavy at night, but that was nice, because it was sunny during the day and everythign was green.
Winston-Salem is a real beautiful place I hear.. It is true Florida stays hotter for longer, but it was 95F here in Nashville even in mid October and then it snowed 3 weeks later and its freaking cold as heck at night (and even during the day and gets dark too early). I don't enjoy these bitter cold nights at all and brings back those dreadful memories of Colorado.
BTW, if you think you feel trapped by the rain, just wait until you endure 8 months of Colorado blizzards. Some years I hear it is very sunny, but the year I was there, it would snow and snow and the roads are hazardous and the Californians in Colorado make driving in the place terrifying as they don't know how to drive in snow and smashed into everyone.
Look at the picture of my backyard and the other Charlotte vs Denver thread and you will see what mid April can be like.
Oh, and Summer is no picnic in Denver.. The year I was there we hardly had a sunny day (by 12PM it would be cloudy ) and you have crazy weather, non-stop lightning , massive hail that can destroy your home and car (and you) and wind storms and tornadoes (if you live East of I-25).
I actually like Florida and I am even thinking of breaking my lease here in Tennessee and packing up and going to Tampa.
No place is perfect and every place has things that suck.
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