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A spin-off from a couple of threads, I noticed this side discussion involving the place of Seattle:
Will Seattle leap frog metros like Atlanta, Boston, Philly and Miami in cultural and economic importance.
My answer is half and half. I think Atlanta and Boston will remain ahead on these metrics, but it will soon surpass Philly... and may out compete Miami current day wrt to the two criterions.
What do you think?
I think this is a response to my post/message on Seattle’s music scene. The question you’re asking is a much broader question than what I was getting at there - in terms of overall cultural influence, Seattle simply by the fact that it’s fairly isolated from anywhere not on the West Coast, has less cultural interaction with other cities than places like Boston or Atlanta which are very close to many other mid size and major cities.
If there’s one thing Seattle is known for culturally it’s its iconic music scene. In the 1990s grunge took over rock music and became a cultural phenomenon. Given it’s relative geographic isolation, it makes it even more impressive that Seattle became the center of the music world and a cultural hub during the early-mid 90s. My point is that Seattle’s local music scene is a big focus for tourists - I’ll repost my message below. These days it’s more known for its big tech and other companies (Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing, Starbucks, etc.) and its economic influence has grown a ton. However people are still interested in Seattle strong musical legacy/culture. Here’s my post from the other thread highlighting the very specific comparison I was making with Atlanta. My other point is that Atlanta does not have much influence on the West Coast (again: proximity).
Seattle is pretty high up there in terms of US cities known for an iconic music scene. Yes, it was a while ago but tourists are still fascinated with the whole Seattle Sound/Grunge scene that took over rock music and was a cultural phenomenon in the 1990's. It's also known as the home of Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, and a bunch of other famous rock acts over the decades. One of Seattle's biggest tourist attractions is the Experience Music Project Museum (recently changed its name to "MoPop"), which focuses heavily on local music history.
I'm not saying most tourists come to Seattle because of its Grunge/Rock history, but if you're going to cite Atlanta's rap scene - which honestly you don't hear much about on the West Coast - as a tourist draw I think that Seattle's place in rock history and the associated attractions are just as, if not more, pertinent (e.g. historic music venues where bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam Played before they got famous, the aforementioned music museum, Jimi Hendrix' grave, statue and park, sites from the movie "Singles", etc.)
I think that's a fair point. Seattle's fortunes more than pretty much every other Top 15 metro seems to be very tied to just a handful of very large companies. Cities/metros like Boston, Philadelphia, and to a lesser extent, Atlanta and Miami, are much more mature and diversified.
In particular, Seattle's corporate sector is very tied to retail trends, which certainly aren't the most stable/predictable.
Seattle’s largest employer is still Boeing - it has 80,000 employees in the Seattle Region. Seattle’s economic fortunes are still more tied to Boeing than any single other company. Amazon has 50,000 employees in the region, as does Microsoft.
I think this is a response to my post/message on Seattle’s music scene. The question you’re asking is a much broader question than what I was getting at there - in terms of overall cultural influence, Seattle simply by the fact that it’s fairly isolated from anywhere not on the West Coast, has less cultural interaction with other cities than places like Boston or Atlanta which are very close to many other mid size and major cities.
If there’s one thing Seattle is known for culturally it’s its iconic music scene. In the 1990s grunge took over rock music and became a cultural phenomenon. Given it’s relative geographic isolation, it makes it even more impressive that Seattle became the center of the music world and a cultural hub during the early-mid 90s. My point is that Seattle’s local music scene is a big focus for tourists - I’ll repost my message below. These days it’s more known for its big tech and other companies (Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing, Starbucks, etc.) and its economic influence has grown a ton. However people are still interested in Seattle strong musical legacy/culture. Here’s my post from the other thread highlighting the very specific comparison I was making with Atlanta. My other point is that Atlanta does not have much influence on the West Coast (again: proximity).
Seattle is pretty high up there in terms of US cities known for an iconic music scene. Yes, it was a while ago but tourists are still fascinated with the whole Seattle Sound/Grunge scene that took over rock music and was a cultural phenomenon in the 1990's. It's also known as the home of Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, and a bunch of other famous rock acts over the decades. One of Seattle's biggest tourist attractions is the Experience Music Project Museum (recently changed its name to "MoPop"), which focuses heavily on local music history.
I'm not saying most tourists come to Seattle because of its Grunge/Rock history, but if you're going to cite Atlanta's rap scene - which honestly you don't hear much about on the West Coast - as a tourist draw I think that Seattle's place in rock history and the associated attractions are just as, if not more, pertinent (e.g. historic music venues where bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam Played before they got famous, the aforementioned music museum, Jimi Hendrix' grave, statue and park, sites from the movie "Singles", etc.)
Well, hey Buddy lol.
Yes, you are *part* of the reason, but Seattle’s been discussed in few threads on economic and cultural importance, so I just consolidated it into 1 thread. I find it interesting.
To your point to my remarks on music and branding:
I still say its different monster. Rappers and where they come from (what they rep) is central to the music in a way that rock isn’t.
Just off the the top of my head:
You have welcome Atlanta by JD and Ludacris, Atlalien by OutKast and even pop songs #1 billboard song Camila_Cabello called Havana, featuring young thug, which has reference to Atlanta in the Chorus.
I could go on, but I’m just trying to illustrate that the pop culture icons from or based here, actually mention it every other song. People from all over could tell you what Bankhead is, the name of clubs, Lenox Square, freaknik, etc.
Seattle May have big acts/stars based there, but rock music isn’t primarily about “reppin where they from”
And while there is no statistic, I know for sure that ppl from their teens to their 40s in any major city would know the things mentioned above if they paid attention to tv or radio at all.
Yes, you are *part* of the reason, but Seattle’s been discussed in few threads on economic and cultural importance, so I just consolidated it into 1 thread. I find it interesting.
To your point to my remarks on music and branding:
I still say its different monster. Rappers and where they come from (what they rep) is central to the music in a way that rock isn’t.
Just off the the top of my head:
You have welcome Atlanta by JD and Ludacris, Atlalien by OutKast and even pop songs #1 billboard song Camila_Cabello called Havana, featuring young thug, which has reference to Atlanta in the Chorus.
I could go on, but I’m just trying to illustrate that the pop culture icons from or based here, actually mention it every other song. People from all over could tell you what Bankhead is, the name of clubs, Lenox Square, freaknik, etc.
Seattle May have big acts/stars based there, but rock music isn’t primarily about “reppin where they from”
And while there is no statistic, I know for sure that ppl from their teens to their 40s in any major city would know the things mentioned above if they paid attention to tv or radio at all.
I get what you’re saying, but the 90s grunge rock scene was all about Seattle as a place. It’s called the “Seattle Sound”.
At the height of the phenomenon, Spin magazine was gushing, “Seattle is to the rock 'n' roll world what Bethlehem is to Christianity”. In the 1990s it was the cool place to be for young people because of its music scene. A quick google search will show there are a ton of books and documentaries specifically about the Seattle Music Scene. Grunge is as associated with Seattle as Motown is with Detroit.
Again I’m talking about (recent) history here, not currently when Seattle is more known for its big tech companies than anything else. But the grunge music legacy is still going strong and visitors to the city are often interested in visiting sites related to it.
Last edited by Vincent_Adultman; 01-04-2020 at 12:50 PM..
Yes, you are *part* of the reason, but Seattle’s been discussed in few threads on economic and cultural importance, so I just consolidated it into 1 thread. I find it interesting.
To your point to my remarks on music and branding:
I still say its different monster. Rappers and where they come from (what they rep) is central to the music in a way that rock isn’t.
Just off the the top of my head:
You have welcome Atlanta by JD and Ludacris, Atlalien by OutKast and even pop songs #1 billboard song Camila_Cabello called Havana, featuring young thug, which has reference to Atlanta in the Chorus.
I could go on, but I’m just trying to illustrate that the pop culture icons from or based here, actually mention it every other song. People from all over could tell you what Bankhead is, the name of clubs, Lenox Square, freaknik, etc.
Seattle May have big acts/stars based there, but rock music isn’t primarily about “reppin where they from”
And while there is no statistic, I know for sure that ppl from their teens to their 40s in any major city would know the things mentioned above if they paid attention to tv or radio at all.
Yes but the reppin doesnt just happen in ATL. It happens in New York and LA as well. Heck sometimes even Detroit.
Music is a fad, and if you base a cities popularity based on that it will come and go as quick as wind. The blues and jazz kicked back off of Chicago and New Orleans. Let's not forget Vegas and rock. Not many think of this anymore because a new generation is at play and it's not the highlight but its ridiculous to assume that Atlanta is the only city that has ever held a cultural mark in the music scene.
Yes but the reppin doesnt just happen in ATL. It happens in New York and LA as well. Heck sometimes even Detroit.
Music is a fad, and if you base a cities popularity based on that it will come and go as quick as wind. The blues and jazz kicked back off of Chicago and New Orleans. Let's not forget Vegas and rock. Not many think of this anymore because a new generation is at play and it's not the highlight but its ridiculous to assume that Atlanta is the only city that has ever held a cultural mark in the music scene.
And honestly I’d argue that Atlanta’s association with its music scene isn’t as strong as associations like Detroit with Motown, NYC with Hip-Hop, or Seattle with Grunge.
I haven't voted. The answer to all of this is "it depends."
If you're counting cultural importance, is it all about today, or do last year and the last century count? Is it about popularity or various roles in bringing about cultural change? Pop culture or fine art? Or does it extend into how people live?
For Seattle's case in those areas, I'd note that people walk around with coffee cups because of a trend (and especially a company) that started here. They shop online at Expedia's various brands and Amazon, work on Word and Excel, and fly on our airplanes. We have at least our share of all-time music (and other) giants, though Atlanta wins in current pop culture. PS, Maclemore reps Seattle quite a bit.
On the economic side, is it about headquarters, GDP, manufacturing, shipping and the supply chain, wealth...? So many factors. The Seattle/Tacoma seaports play an important role, though the world wouldn't fall apart without them. Our main roles seem to be as the #2 center for tech (related to computers/data/internet) in the English-speaking world, with two of the four or five top HQs, and actually the two largest HQs based on local HQ staff. But if you define tech more broadly to include life sciences and other aspects, Boston could be bigger. Atlanta has a huge business role, just one spread around to more companies. Its freeway and airport nexus role is a big deal.
PS, about Seattle's boom and bust past...we're overly reliant on four mega-employers, but our busts were from the days of one mega-employer, Boeing.
Economically Seattle is pretty close to metro areas like Atlanta or Dallas but the biggest caveat is that Seattle's economy is really tied to 4 mega employers and it's not that diversified.. 2010 to 2020 was the decade of Tech so Seattle scored handsomely here, Tech is not going away but there can be bad decades or decades of stagnation even in the hottest sectors and Seattle can see significant impact from it. All it takes is for one of these mega employers to fail or relocate out of the state for Seattle to see a significant impact. On the other hand Atlanta or Dallas are pretty diversified from Healthcare to Telecom to FinTech to Logistics..Wil Delta leaving Atlanta impact Atlanta - Yes, will it be on the same level as Microsoft declining gradually or Amazon leaving Seattle - No.
Culturally I don't think Seattle is on the same footing as Atlanta.. Atlanta has a significant media industry, music industry and historical significance compared to Seattle..
Still for a metro area that is 2/3rd the size of Atlanta or 1/2 the size of Dallas it punches above its weight economically and it has aspirations to crack the top 10 list of metro areas in the country. Will it crack the list and cement its place - the next two decades will tell..
Culturally I don't think Seattle is on the same footing as Atlanta.. Atlanta has a significant media industry, music industry and historical significance compared to Seattle..
In terms of media outlets and historical significance, I agree. But musically, it’s Seattle all the way. It’s one of the few cities in the country whose name is synonymous with a specific sound (the others being Detroit and Nashville) and has had so many famous musical acts over the decades across multiple genres:
Jimi Hendrix
Nirvana/Kurt Cobain
Pearl Jam
Alice In Chains
Soundgarden
Heart
Foo Fighters
Sir Mix-a-Lot
Fleet Foxes
Presidents of the United States
Bikini Kill
Brandi Carlile
Modest Mouse
Sunny Day Real Estate
Death Cab for Cutie
Macklemore
Kenny G
Quincy Jones
Queensryche
Melvins
Boston and Atlanta are growing too fast right now.
Miami, yes. Philly I think it may be passing soon? If it hasnt already.
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