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Downtown LA resembles a 3rd world nation today. I saw it first hand a little over a year ago and it was mind-blowing. I know some things are relative, but, my God, how can anyone prefer this??? It was one of my favorite metros 25 years ago. You couldn't pay me to live there now and don't know if I'll ever visit the city again. Ignoring these negatives doesn't make them disappear. Residents continue to vote for politicians who foster these ills. Too, LA is extremely expensive and is way beyond ever rectifying that problem.
On the upside, LA's suburban areas are much nicer than the city itself. In my rankings, the metro ranks #1 in the nation in recreational assets. So much to do and lots of variety. I prefer the climate and topography of LA to Phoenix's.
Having said that, Phoenix is far from a slouch. There's plenty to do. The economy is strong. The cost of living is much lower and the average person can live much better. The residents are nicer and less pretentious.
But LA's downside overwhelms its upside. Living on LA's past and turning a blind eye to its horrendous social and economic is a bit delusional. Balancing everything out, Phoenix easily wins this for me. Though I would recommend Phoenix to someone, I personally wouldn't want to live in a desert climate that barran, dry, and blow-torch hot. But between LA and Phoenix, I'd go with Phoenix hands down.
As a LA native living in NYC, I agree wholeheartedly. Even though the Downtown Area has been getting better in recent years, it still can’t hold a candle to Manhattan or even downtown Chicago. Unless you are in one of the business/financial districts, much of the downtown areas are ghettos. Suburban areas are actually LA’s true strengths.
Unlike NYC or Chicago, you have to look outward not inward in LA to find its beauty.
As a LA native living in NYC, I agree wholeheartedly. Even though the Downtown Area has been getting better in recent years, it still can’t hold a candle to Manhattan or even downtown Chicago. Unless you are in one of the business/financial districts, much of the downtown areas are ghettos. Suburban areas are actually LA’s true strengths.
Unlike NYC or Chicago, you have to look outward not inward in LA to find its beauty.
Not sure that I'd agree, but I live in DTLA so I'm biased. I don't live in the financial district and I'm not in a ghetto. I take public transportation (and ride share) and everything that I need on a daily basis is within walking distance.
My ideal urban areas from a built form are more like San Francisco. DTLA won't match that in my lifetime, but I'm ok with that. I have so much near me and I'm a short subway or uber from soooo much more...I don't know how many cities can match it. LA just offers so much.
I'm perhaps a little less pessimistic since the developer has a good track record and is currently building another residential tower downtown. FAA height evaluations were already submitted for June for Astra and the developer is waiting for plan approvals from Phoenix. Couple that with continued, high in-migration to Phoenix and the demand for multifamily housing is still outpacing supply in the PHX market. But, we shall see...
Hopefully you are right.
I'm not concerned about the developer, who as you say, has a strong track record. It's more likely to be an issue for developers getting financing to start new construction during a recession.
Regardless, all of the development in downtown Phoenix right now is very exciting. When everything currently under construction is complete and if everything that is proposed actually happens, it's going to be completely transformed.
It really amuses me when people think traffic congestion is the ultimate "checkmate" argument against Los Angeles in these threads, as if other major metros have dramatically different situations (they don't).
Biggest difference here is that Los Angeles has a much bigger metro rail system operating in a geographically smaller city.
It seems pretty simple, take away free time and free cash flow and what do you have left to enjoy your great city?
The study quoted consists of a survey taken by 2700 Robert Half employees on commuting, not sure what to conclude from that... If you've driven in both cities you know there is a very real difference, it's noticeable the instant you enter LA be it weekends or holidays or weekday traffic.
Inrix provides a comprehensive look at how congestion in a city impacts people's lives, it's not just your commute. On a congestion comparison basis people in LA spend 104 hours per year sitting in traffic congestion, ranking as the 6th worst in the nation. In Phoenix that number is 35 hours per year at 33rd worst in the nation.
It seems pretty simple, take away free time and free cash flow and what do you have left to enjoy your great city?
The study quoted consists of a survey taken by 2700 Robert Half employees on commuting, not sure what to conclude from that... If you've driven in both cities you know there is a very real difference, it's noticeable the instant you enter LA be it weekends or holidays or weekday traffic.
Inrix provides a comprehensive look at how congestion in a city impacts people's lives, it's not just your commute. On a congestion comparison basis people in LA spend 104 hours per year sitting in traffic congestion, ranking as the 6th worst in the nation. In Phoenix that number is 35 hours per year at 33rd worst in the nation.
What's most interesting about that list is that Boston, Philly, Chicago, D.C., NYC, all rank well above Los Angeles for "hours lost in congestion", yet you'll never hear a peep on city data about "soul crushing traffic" or the hours gone from your life from getting place to place in any of those cities. It's just implied that you'll be zipping along on their world class mass transit that 'everyone" rides.
Using "traffic" as a strike against Los Angeles is an old, dumb cliche.
If you get in a car and get on a major freeway in one of the most populated areas of the world, it shouldn't really come as a surprise that there are lots of other cars on the road.
As a casual reminder height restrictions for Downtown Phoenix are nothing. Depending where you are in Downtown, the average height is around 1300 feet or so (given Downtown doesn’t go south of Lincoln) which is more than 3x the height of Phoenix’s current tallest.
And if you don’t believe me you can read it from Sky Harbor yourself
As a casual reminder height restrictions for Downtown Phoenix are nothing. Depending where you are in Downtown, the average height is around 1300 feet or so (given Downtown doesn’t go south of Lincoln) which is more than 3x the height of Phoenix’s current tallest.
And if you don’t believe me you can read it from Sky Harbor yourself
Are you forgetting that the elevation of downtown is around 1000 feet? So you'll never see anything built 2 nor 3X the height of Chase Tower. The Downtown Zone Map puts things a little more into perspective (all elevations are above Mean Sea Level).
Are you forgetting that the elevation of downtown is around 1000 feet? So you'll never see anything built 2 nor 3X the height of Chase Tower. The Downtown Zone Map puts things a little more into perspective (all elevations are above Mean Sea Level).
Except if you actually read the second link, it refers to a Maximum Building Height upwards of 1300 feet in the immediate downtown area.
And in reference to what you said, the airport is also around a 1000 feet. They cancel each other out. The airplane is trying to land at the 1000 something feef the airport is at, not 1000 feet underground.
Except if you actually read the second link, it refers to a Maximum Building Height upwards of 1300 feet in the immediate downtown area.
And in reference to what you said, the airport is also around a 1000 feet. They cancel each other out. The airplane is trying to land at the 1000 something feef the airport is at, not 1000 feet underground.
??
Maximum Building Height includes the elevation at street level + building height, not simply how tall a building itself can be. I'm not sure of the exact elevation of downtown Phoenix, but it is at least 1000 ft., probably closer to 1100 ft. above sea level. Sky Harbor is 1124 ft. above sea level.
Now, Chase Tower building itself is 483 feet tall from its base to top. It is located in Area 11 where the maximum building height is 1600 ft. Therefore, in that Area, you take 1100 (rough elevation of downtown) + 483 = 1583.
As a LA native living in NYC, I agree wholeheartedly. Even though the Downtown Area has been getting better in recent years, it still can’t hold a candle to Manhattan or even downtown Chicago. Unless you are in one of the business/financial districts, much of the downtown areas are ghettos. Suburban areas are actually LA’s true strengths.
Unlike NYC or Chicago, you have to look outward not inward in LA to find its beauty.
Completely disagree. The heart and soul of this metropolis is the city of Los Angeles. History, food, architecture, cultural amenities, transportation, employment, nightlife is LA. I would not get on a plane and travel here to see, Torrance, Arcadia, Irvine, Santa Monica, Glendale, Anaheim and so on. I live in central Los Angeles and love it.
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