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In addition to being a much cleaner, more organized metropolitan area with a larger, more robust economy and a wider array of higher educational institutions, another advantage Raleigh has over Tucson is a more career-focused mindset among its local residents. In my experience, many young adults in Tucson who are not students at the University of Arizona have an alarmingly careless attitude towards career development and growth that I have not observed in Raleigh or any other major city in the country, for that matter. The terms "laid-back" and "slow-paced" are polite disguises for what is truly an apathetic, complacent local culture.
While true, the Tucson "metro" is the very definition of sprawl. There actually aren't any cities in Pima county that aren't a part of the Tucson "metro" and much of Tucson metro isn't in the the city limits proper. It is in the county.
This is one reason Tucson (the city) looks so bad on paper. The wealthy parts of town aren't IN the city, they are in the county. The city has just a handful of wealthy neighborhoods, and a few more upper middle class neighborhoods and the rest is middle class or lower. Meanwhile the "county" part of Tucson is the second or third wealthiest area in Arizona.
Yes, city level data can be misleading when the areas inside and outside city limits have very different characteristics. But Tucson does come up pretty short at the metro area level as well, at least compared to Raleigh, in terms of financial well being. The Raleigh data is for three counties (and two of these are rather rural and less prosperous), so just comparing Wake County vs. Pima County would result in even wider discrepancies.
Data from 2014-2018 averages:
Median Household Income -
Raleigh: 72,297
Tucson: 51,037
Per Capita Income -
Raleigh: 36,518
Tucson: 28,480
Yeah, or an NFL game maybe. Really Charlotte is just a bigger version of Raleigh that has pro sports, IKEA and Carowinds. If I want an actual nearby big city experience, I'm driving to Washington.
Kinda, but not really. I think what sets Charlotte apart from Raleigh is Charlotte's dowtown and southend area which is much larger and has more things to do than what Raleigh's urban core offers. The "city" difference to me is significantly noticeable. And yeah, Raleigh over Tucson without question. I could easily see myself living in Raleigh.
Kinda, but not really. I think what sets Charlotte apart from Raleigh is Charlotte's dowtown and southend area which is much larger and has more things to do than what Raleigh's urban core offers. The "city" difference to me is significantly noticeable. And yeah, Raleigh over Tucson without question. I could easily see myself living in Raleigh.
Charlotte is a bigger city than Raleigh with a significantly bigger skyline, but neither are "big cities" and a large skyline doesn't mean big city unfortunately. I wish it did, it would be nice to have a true big city in NC but Charlotte's street level downtown is just so sterile and uninteresting. If I'm needing a true urban big city fix, Charlotte is definitely not the answer. DC would be the closest, then Philadelphia.
Charlotte is a bigger city than Raleigh with a significantly bigger skyline, but neither are "big cities" and a large skyline doesn't mean big city unfortunately. I wish it did, it would be nice to have a true big city in NC but Charlotte's street level downtown is just so sterile and uninteresting. If I'm needing a true urban big city fix, Charlotte is definitely not the answer. DC would be the closest, then Philadelphia.
I agree that Charlotte would not give most people that "big city fix" (especially urbanist) but neither would many other sunbelt cities that are much larger than Charlotte. My point was that when comparing urban cores to each other I'd say there is no comparison between CLT and RDU. They're on different levels.
Yes, city level data can be misleading when the areas inside and outside city limits have very different characteristics. But Tucson does come up pretty short at the metro area level as well, at least compared to Raleigh, in terms of financial well being. The Raleigh data is for three counties (and two of these are rather rural and less prosperous), so just comparing Wake County vs. Pima County would result in even wider discrepancies.
Data from 2014-2018 averages:
Median Household Income -
Raleigh: 72,297
Tucson: 51,037
Per Capita Income -
Raleigh: 36,518
Tucson: 28,480
Catalina Foothills: 42,000
Just to demonstrate how the city of Tucson drags the wealthy part of Pima county down to those "metro" levels. There are about 600K in Tucson (city) and 500K in the rest of the county. I'd bet that about 150K of the county is in the same shape as the city. And about 350K are in much, much better shape.
Last edited by eddie gein; 04-20-2020 at 07:14 PM..
Just to demonstrate how the city of Tucson drags the wealthy part of Pima county down to those "metro" levels. There are about 600K in Tucson (city) and 500K in the rest of the county. I'd bet that about 150K of the county is in the same shape as the city. And about 350K are in much, much better shape.
There is no doubt that Tucson is very economically segregated. You can see it, visually, crossing river road and you can see it coming from the west as well into Oro Valley.
Tucson is also one of the most affordable cities in the country. A $1400 1 bedroom in Phoenix might be $900 in Tucson.
Also the majority of Pima County is the Tohono O’odham reservation which is pretty poverty stricken. The far side of the county on the other side of the reservation is Ajo and Why which aren’t exactly rich either. Honestly to compare Tucson effectively you need to look at MSA data only, which should hopefully include Marana, Green Valley, Sahuarita and Vail as well in addition to Oro Valley, Tucson and South Tucson.
There is no doubt that Tucson is very economically segregated. You can see it, visually, crossing river road and you can see it coming from the west as well into Oro Valley.
Tucson is also one of the most affordable cities in the country. A $1400 1 bedroom in Phoenix might be $900 in Tucson.
Also the majority of Pima County is the Tohono O’odham reservation which is pretty poverty stricken. The far side of the county on the other side of the reservation is Ajo and Why which aren’t exactly rich either. Honestly to compare Tucson effectively you need to look at MSA data only, which should hopefully include Marana, Green Valley, Sahuarita and Vail as well in addition to Oro Valley, Tucson and South Tucson.
Good post. Yes, adding in the Tohono O'odham and Ajo adds a lot of really poor people. South Tucson doesn't help either.
I think the point here is that suburban Tucson is huge and would hold up well compared to most nice parts of a place like Raleigh while the city of Tucson doesn't hold a candle to Raleigh.
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