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Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4
I disagree. Even MSA’s are pretty generous by international standards.
Economy is different though. It's very hard to differentiate when or where a metro area's economy is just cut off to the outside. It's not the same as tallying up the residential population in an area. Who contributes to the regional economy of a place regularly, and who doesn't? The U.S. remember is not like much of the developed world when it comes to development patterns. Take a look at LA and the Inland Empire since that's the focus city here. Where does the Los Angeles economy end? The sprawling development patterns in America create larger economic spheres. I think each metric tells it's own story, we need city proper, MSA, and CSA to grasp all of it.
Economy is different though. It's very hard to differentiate when or where a metro area's economy is just cut off to the outside. It's not the same as tallying up the residential population in an area. Who contributes to the regional economy of a place regularly, and who doesn't? The U.S. remember is not like much of the developed world when it comes to development patterns. Take a look at LA and the Inland Empire since that's the focus city here. Where does the Los Angeles economy end? The sprawling development patterns in America create larger economic spheres. I think each metric tells it's own story, we need city proper, MSA, and CSA to grasp all of it.
If anything American cities have clearer ends to their commuter sheds. Like where Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds it Stokes on Trent ends is very blurry and the space between them is very populated.
Like DC, Boston, Cleveland, Chicago, Denver, LA and SF are outliers most cities like Cincinnati, Columbus, Kansas City, St Louis add very little jumping from MSA to CSA. Because cities are far apart enough that there isn’t overlapping labor markets. In much of Europe like the Rhine valley, Holland or the Midlands of the England that’s not true.
Seems to me that even economically, it's closer to NYC.
When it comes to recognition, it's not particularly close. NY and LA are in a league of their own, I would say. And they're in the same league. I would argue 2 of the 3 best known, most popular, most iconic, most "I wanna go live there once!" cities in the world. 3rd being London.
CD underrates LA massively, the most of any large city I would say.
Nothing bad to say about Chicago, it's a world player, no doubt, but LA is out of it's reach in any way possible, especially when it comes to perception.
What I've also noticed on CD, you Americans kind of overrated Paris. It doesn't really seem to be seen as a London peer where I'm from, honestly. LA is better known than Paris here, I would say. And I'm in Europe.
1. Tokyo
2. NYC
3. Seoul
4. London
5. Paris
6. Los Angeles
7. San Francisco Bay area
8. Shanghai
9. Hong Kong
10. Singapore/Beijing/DC/Chicago/Seattle due to Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing
London, Tokyo and New York are in a tier of their own.
Seoul, Paris, LA, Shanghai and Beijing would be below them.
Seattle wouldn't make any credible list of the world's most important cities.
CD underrates LA massively, the most of any large city I would say.
What I've also noticed on CD, you Americans kind of overrated Paris. It doesn't really seem to be seen as a London peer where I'm from, honestly. LA is better known than Paris here, I would say. And I'm in Europe.
These two particular quotes of yours, we had a huge, wide-ranging thread on here about a half-decade ago. I'm pissed that I can't remember the name, but it was far-reaching and wide-ranging and, like yourself, we had contributions from several Europeans and some Americans of foreign lineage, as well as plenty of domestic contributors as normal--->some of the domestics being well versed in international travel, though most of us weren't...
It was one of the best threads we ever had here, for the fact that it provided some great perspective about how Americans view our cities; how Americans view foreign cities (European, Asian, etc); and how foreigners from different parts of the globe view our cities, our cultural practices, etc...
The thread didn't start that way, some how it bled into that, and for people like me who haven't spent a great deal of time outside of the US, it was immeasurably informative, just the many different perspectives, from ALL parties, but particularly from those who were from the Eastern Hemisphere or familiar with those people and their worldview on American cities and perspective...
And of the few foreigners I've befriended here, anecdotally, the accounts given in that thread matched up with what I've experienced, but that thread was expansive and very informational...
To your first point, anybody on here will tell you I've sounded the drums for years on here about how we massively underrate LA on here. I've been saying that for years on this website, me and a handful of others, trust me. This board has many smart and fun people and it's always cool learning new things from people, but as a group I think we forget sometimes that we represent maybe, 5% of the American public and opinions? This site attracts intellectuals who are specifically in to analyzing data about cities as acutely as we can, to the point of obsession on some things that really aren't that big of a deal...
I say that to say, trust me on this, LA being underrated on here, and NY not being viewed as a peer to LA, is a City-Data thing. Generally speaking, most Americans very much place them within the same tier of two. Because I'm a similar personality as my fellow posters attracted to boards like this, if you press me and force me to rank them, I would put NY ahead of LA, but that's only because NY had a huge head start on development as a power and thus has some legacy signifiers that attest to that. That's if you force me to rank them as we do on here; In no way, shape, or form, do I think NY has some massive gap ahead of LA or is unattainable. And the typical American doesn't think about having to rank them in an order, we recognize NY/LA as our two dominant cities, then there's everywhere else...
The CD narrative that LA isn't a peer to NY is mainly a smart-dumb envy comment, by truly smart posters who place too much emphasis on a specific built form and can't fathom how in just barely 100 years, LA usurped all the former competition for NY; much of that narrative is very directly from that, and I've always called that on exactly what it is. People on here get sensitive when their city has been overtaken...
Last edited by murksiderock; 05-05-2020 at 07:12 PM..
Seems to me that even economically, it's closer to NYC.
When it comes to recognition, it's not particularly close. NY and LA are in a league of their own, I would say. And they're in the same league. I would argue 2 of the 3 best known, most popular, most iconic, most "I wanna go live there once!" cities in the world. 3rd being London.
CD underrates LA massively, the most of any large city I would say.
Nothing bad to say about Chicago, it's a world player, no doubt, but LA is out of it's reach in any way possible, especially when it comes to perception.
What I've also noticed on CD, you Americans kind of overrated Paris. It doesn't really seem to be seen as a London peer where I'm from, honestly. LA is better known than Paris here, I would say. And I'm in Europe.
(continuing last post):
That old thread also shed light on the fact that many foreigners don't place NY in some category by itself from anybody else, particularly Easterners. Everybody with a curiosity for this knows NY is one of the greatest cities in the world. Only here and other Western publications with Western interests sometimes seem to have this idea that NY is the one city in the world standing away from everyone else...
and while I can't speak for London having never been, a few people said something similar about London, that it isn't just by itself, and that thread also revealed that many, if not most, foreigners would place London ahead of NY if forced to rank, which is completely different than the American ideology pushed in our media that NY and London are basically interchangeably 1 and 2. Those people expounded though, and mentioned that the reason most people would lean London is because of its longer age and deeper impact on the globe, its reputation is older and broader. Made complete sense to me to hear people mention that there are many great cities on the planet, and the US has several of the best, but other nations have their own NY, LA, etc...
Regarding your last point, we are Westerners, so we are culturally interconnected, thus there is a heavy lean on all things European here. It's like that in certain segments of American society for sure, but definitely this board fetishizes Europe. And I think most people recognize that Paris is a global power, but there have been people over the years to point out our fetishization of European cities in here, particularly in the context of placing specific and certain US cities as lesser than certain European ones...
So you're not the first, we've heard that said before, too!
Lastly, I know I can't be the only guy on here who remembers that damn thread. One of my lasting impressions though, of many from it, was the people familiar with Eastern cultures and societies pointing out how full of ourselves many Westerners are and how we view ourselves and perspective sometimes, and how dismissive we tend to be towards other cities or societies or cultures we may not be as intertwined with. And there's nothing more American than self-glorification and vanity, that one tickled me because its true of us as a people to the core!
CD underrates LA massively, the most of any large city I would say.
I actually think it's the opposite. LA is way overrated in this forum.
Sometimes you visit a place and immediately you get a "Wow" feeling, I felt in in NYC and even in Chicago but not in Los Angeles, not even close.
The only surprising thing I saw in LA was the thousands and thousands of homeless everywhere. Unless you think you can have a successful career in acting, I don't see a reason to ever consider moving there.
For now...lets wait to see what the wonders of quantitative easing does to our currency
Substantial overinflation and taking the legs out our nominal currency value
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09
I guess I was expecting to see Beijing or Shanghai or Hong Kong, but yes otherwise the list makes full sense. I do think by comparison to the globe CSA would be the better comparative metric yes.
They're both in 10-20 group, mixing it up with Dallas-Fort Worth, Philly, Houston, Boston etc..
Isn't NYC MSA closer to $1.8 trillion and greater LA closer to $1.0 trillion?
When looking at the 2018 numbers for MSA (which it looks like you used for the American cities).
Seems like all the other cities are accurate, but NYC is rounded down and LA rounded highly up.
The 1.2 Trillion is the Greater LA region (so it includes San Bernardino). $1.0 Trillion is just the LA basin
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