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Apparently, DC is ranked #1 best park system in America. Atlanta is ranked #49 in America.
According to the Trust for Public Land’s 10th annual ParkScore® index, Washington, DC, has the best city park system in the country. The city reached the top spot partly because of strong performance on the rating system’s new equity measures. In Washington, residents who identify as Black, Hispanic and Latinx, Indigenous and Native American, or Asian Americans and Pacific Islander are equally likely to live within a 10-minute walk of a park as white residents. Park space per capita is also distributed nearly equally in Washington.
Geez. Who would have guessed the capital of the richest most powerful nation on earth would have better parks?
You picked out what you wanted out of that statement I made but clearly I said new parks in addition to more green spaces which are not always parks. People have yards downtown Atlanta.When I lived downtown Atlanta I did.
I said new parks because those are the places that are spurring the new development around them. DC's parks arent new as Atlantas but it is a densely populated city
Acreage
Access
Equity
Those are three of the methodology they use. Doent take a rocket scientist to see how an older dense city do better in Parkscore.
Also people dont have yards like they do down South also part of my point.Even low income people will have a yard.
The National Mall alone is tons of acreage. DC aslo has wetlands that cant be developed and counted as park land
You don’t see the river being a barrier? It has been thus far. That goes for east of the river neighborhoods and Prince George’s County. Why haven’t other races crossed the river already? There are wealthy neighborhoods all over Prince George’s County, but other races have avoided neighborhoods east of the river. They have been moving to Fairfax, Prince William, Loudon, Montgomery, Frederick, Howard, and west of the river neighborhoods in DC. At what point do you predict they cross the river? What timeframe? I’m not doubting it could happen at some point, but when?
Gentrification happens organically neighborhood by neighborhood. That’s why physical barriers are often the ending point. The only way people jump over is when there is no other option. I think most people west of the river think of east of the river neighborhoods as leaving DC. It is so isolated that most people have never even crossed the river. They would rather move to Arlington and Silver Spring etc. which they view as the same thing as crossing east of the river.
It’s easier to get to Prince George’s County from east of the river neighborhoods than it is to cross the bridge to visit the urban core of DC west of the river.
You just ignored the census map I provided showing you are wrong to keep stating those areas East of the river are not showing signs of beginning gentrification when they clearly are. Some whites and a few Latonos the map shiowed. Just give it up already.
Geez. Who would have guessed the capital of the richest most powerful nation on earth would have better parks?
You picked out what you wanted out of that statement I made but clearly I said new parks in addition to more green spaces which are not always parks. People have yards downtown Atlanta.When I lived downtown Atlanta I did.
I said new parks because those are the places that are spurring the new development around them. DC's parks arent new as Atlantas but it is a densely populated city
Acreage
Access
Equity
Those are three of the methodology they use. Doent take a rocket scientist to see how an older dense city do better in Parkscore.
Also people dont have yards like they do down South also part of my point.Even low income people will have a yard.
The National Mall alone is tons of acreage. DC aslo has wetlands that cant be developed and counted as park land
You asked about parks and recreation in the black neighborhoods I have been highlighting. You talked about a balance saying development should not be about creating a concrete jungle. That was the point you made. I knew your comment was born out of ignorance especially of Ward 7 DC, so I provided data and the best measurement of parks for the areas we have been talking about to show which city has the best of both worlds for black neighborhoods. Atlanta needs to build parks in their black neighborhoods because they don’t currently exist. DC already has them.
After taking all those things into account, it’s clear Downtown Ward 7 is a black neighborhood that is better than all the black neighborhoods in Atlanta when it comes to balancing urbanity and access to parks and recreation. Can you provide a black neighborhood in Atlanta with more selling points (urban and access to parks) than Downtown Ward 7? If so, what are all the things slated for that neighborhood? You have posted things, but they have been all over the city. Which black neighborhood would you put up against Downtown Ward 7? The Westend redevelopment could be a contender, but where is the park access? I know it’s early in the development of their plans, but have they given specifics on the size yet? How does it compare to Downtown Ward 7?
There are continuous improvements slated for all the natural parks surrounding Downtown Ward 7 which will provide even more access.
You just ignored the census map I provided showing you are wrong to keep stating those areas East of the river are not showing signs of beginning gentrification when they clearly are. Some whites and a few Latonos the map shiowed. Just give it up already.
I didn’t ignore your map, the changes are insignificant. You posted maps showing that the demographic percentages have barely changed for decades. Your making my point. Unless you have data showing that since 2000 or 2010 the black population has dropped down to 60% or 50% or even further, how is it significant? Who made the claim no other races would move to black neighborhoods around the region? The conversation is about massive movement that can move the needle and you have not shown anything that proves that is happening.
I think Ward 8 is the area in danger of gentrification because of its access to Navy Yard and Buzzard Point right across the river. The 11th Street Bridge Park and Frederick Douglass Memorial Bridge will provide even greater access to those areas once complete. I see Historic Anacostia and Barry Farms having the same demographics as Navy Yard in the future once Poplar Point is developed. That will extend to St. Elizabeth East and Congress Heights eventually. Ward 7 is in a completely different situation though. It’s mainly homeowners and the ward of choice for black professionals way more so than Ward 8. It’s isolated by tons of barriers that can’t be developed so I do think it will withstand those changes during our lifetime at least.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 05-30-2021 at 09:32 AM..
You asked about parks and recreation in the black neighborhoods I have been highlighting. You talked about a balance saying development should not be about creating a concrete jungle. That was the point you made. I knew your comment was born out of ignorance especially of Ward 7 DC, so I provided data and the best measurement of parks for the areas we have been talking about to show which city has the best of both worlds for black neighborhoods. Atlanta needs to build parks in their black neighborhoods because they don’t currently exist. DC already has them.
After taking all those things into account, it’s clear Downtown Ward 7 is a black neighborhood that is better than all the black neighborhoods in Atlanta when it comes to balancing urbanity and access to parks and recreation. Can you provide a black neighborhood in Atlanta with more selling points (urban and access to parks) than Downtown Ward 7? If so, what are all the things slated for that neighborhood? You have posted things, but they have been all over the city. Which black neighborhood would you put up against Downtown Ward 7? The Westend redevelopment could be a contender, but where is the park access? I know it’s early in the development of their plans, but have they given specifics on the size yet? How does it compare to Downtown Ward 7?
There are continuous improvements slated for all the natural parks surrounding Downtown Ward 7 which will provide even more access.
As for yards, all the houses in Ward 7 have yards, especially in the back leading to the alleys so your point for yards is inaccurate.
Once agian you misrepresenting the facts. I never asked you about park skore . I asked you about capital improvements along with the development that included but not limited just to new parks. Before you say my comments were "born out of ignorance" it wasnt a comment,it was a question.More of a rhetorical question at that.ou
Unless you consider those types of questions ignorant.
Whats ignorant is your comments about what Atlanta needs to do when I specifically told you more than one occasion all the new parks within a short time they have built. You have no concept of what the Beltline is at all even though I have provided you with information and told you that it includes "new parks" as a part of its design. The Beltline in itself gives poorer black communities access to not just some new parks but,jobs and commerce in other communities. Its something every major city is looking into some version of it and that is something Atlanta will have that will forever stand out in its largess.
It sound like you arent really interested in hearing anything about Atlanta or what its doing. You care to just present this continuous diatribe how Atlanta is inferior to DC in your mind.
At the end of the day this is still a measure of cities that are more closer to equals with strengths that some put more weight on than others.Something it seems you cant accept why anyone would choose to Atlanta to live in the city and not a suburb which is indeed a statement actually born out of ignorance. Atlanta isnt Birmingham and its got and doin enough great things that keep people here and more coming every day.
Im so tired of repeating myself and giving you information when its obvious you just want to keep this thread going.
YES . NEW PARKS!!!! All these are the Vine City/English Ave/ Westend areas and then there are pocket parks, as well as schools with playgrounds. I lived in this area there are too many parks than the amount of people that use them or live in the area. Its just not that dense compared to DC. I dont care what Park Score says about Atlanta lacking parks.
Washington DC isnt a concre`t jungle like NYC but compared to Atlanta it is. You can post all the parkscore numbers you want and that statement is more close to the truth than not
Every place I have talked about was black and urban. Not dense like DC but urban for sure but you just want to keep harping on about how much more dense and urban DC is. A point well established in the first few pages of this thread.
Its not necessary for a moment in black history DC. Most of us in this thread know of the importance of DC as not only first for many black achievements but also American achievements. I cant say im as confident on your knowledge of Atlanta as many your statements are more assumptions that have been dead wrong
I didn’t ignore your map, the changes are insignificant. You posted maps showing that the demographic percentages have barely changed for decades. Your making my point. Unless you have data showing that since 2000 or 2010 the black population has dropped down to 60% or 50% or even further, how is it significant? Who made the claim no other races would move to black neighborhoods around the region? The conversation is about massive movement that can move the needle and you have not shown anything that proves that is happening.
I think Ward 8 is the area in danger of gentrification because of its access to Navy Yard and Buzzard Point right across the river. The 11th Street Bridge Park and Frederick Douglass Memorial Bridge will provide even greater access to those areas once complete. I see Historic Anacostia and Barry Farms having the same demographics as Navy Yard in the future once Poplar Point is developed. That will extend to St. Elizabeth East and Congress Heights eventually. Ward 7 is in a completely different situation though. It’s mainly homeowners and the ward of choice for black professionals way more so than Ward 8. It’s isolated by tons of barriers that can’t be developed so I do think it will withstand those changes during our lifetime at least.
LOL
You went from no way WARD 7 or 8 would change to ,"ok maybe ward8 will"
You really sound like you just dont want to accept known patterns everywhere else in the gentrification olympics that are on there way to DCs black neighborhoods.
I provided you with a by the decade population demographic change map showing you EXACTLY whay I said would start off slow before it will be full blown changed.
Even the article specifically mentioned what the map showed that in like other areas whites and Latino will continue to grow in the city while the black pop after years of decline is at best stable.
Once agian you misrepresenting the facts. I never asked you about park skore . I asked you about capital improvements along with the development that included but not limited just to new parks. Before you say my comments were "born out of ignorance" it wasnt a comment,it was a question.More of a rhetorical question at that.ou
Unless you consider those types of questions ignorant.
Whats ignorant is your comments about what Atlanta needs to do when I specifically told you more than one occasion all the new parks within a short time they have built. You have no concept of what the Beltline is at all even though I have provided you with information and told you that it includes "new parks" as a part of its design. The Beltline in itself gives poorer black communities access to not just some new parks but,jobs and commerce in other communities. Its something every major city is looking into some version of it and that is something Atlanta will have that will forever stand out in its largess.
It sound like you arent really interested in hearing anything about Atlanta or what its doing. You care to just present this continuous diatribe how Atlanta is inferior to DC in your mind.
At the end of the day this is still a measure of cities that are more closer to equals with strengths that some put more weight on than others.Something it seems you cant accept why anyone would choose to Atlanta to live in the city and not a suburb which is indeed a statement actually born out of ignorance. Atlanta isnt Birmingham and its got and doin enough great things that keep people here and more coming every day.
Im so tired of repeating myself and giving you information when its obvious you just want to keep this thread going.
YES . NEW PARKS!!!! All these are the Vine City/English Ave/ Westend areas and then there are pocket parks, as well as schools with playgrounds. I lived in this area there are too many parks than the amount of people that use them or live in the area. Its just not that dense compared to DC. I dont care what Park Score says about Atlanta lacking parks.
Washington DC isnt a concre`t jungle like NYC but compared to Atlanta it is. You can post all the parkscore numbers you want and that statement is more close to the truth than not
Every place I have talked about was black and urban. Not dense like DC but urban for sure but you just want to keep harping on about how much more dense and urban DC is. A point well established in the first few pages of this thread.
Its not necessary for a moment in black history DC. Most of us in this thread know of the importance of DC as not only first for many black achievements but also American achievements. I cant say im as confident on your knowledge of Atlanta as many your statements are more assumptions that have been dead wrong
I understand what you’re saying about new parks. I understand what you’re saying about them being a catalyst for new development. I also understand that the construction of something new signals new investment to the private sector and more capital flows to those areas. I know what the Beltline is for Atlanta and unlike you for anything I posted about Downtown Ward 7 in this thread, I have complimented the Beltline because it’s awesome many times in this thread. Are you saying the English Avenue area will be a better urban black neighborhood than Downtown Ward 7? If so, their attributes are what we should focus on. It’s supposed to be a competition. How far is Washington Park from the AUC? It was built in 1919 for African Americans? That’s really significant.
Isn’t this a competition to compare which city has the best black urban neighborhoods? I put up Downtown Ward 7 as the best urban black neighborhood moving into this decade. I figured you were trying to stay within the theme and question asked by the OP which was a competition between black urban neighborhoods in both cities. This is from the OP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4
Washington and Atlanta are easily the two best cities for African Americans in the country, but when we speak of successful Black areas, they are mainly suburbs. I am planning on working in the government field when I graduate college and want to live in a walkable, urban, transit-connected neighborhood in one of these cities. This is a thread to compare urban districts in these two cities with significant African American populations (I'm from Atlanta so I'm used to higher black populations but I'll set the lowest percentage at 30%). Which city is better for Black urban living? Which has better transit access to black neighborhoods? What about amenities?
Is it wrong to be making a comparison about black neighborhoods judging them by density, urban built form, retail, vibrancy, parks and recreation, and transit? Isn’t that what the thread asked us to do? The OP said which is better for urban living right? This forum is called city vs. city.
If someone asked which city is better for urban living between NYC and DC, I wouldn’t be mad if people said DC has nothing on NYC because it doesn’t. NYC is way more urban than DC. That is not a slight to DC though, that’s just the truth. Why does DC having better black urban neighborhoods than Atlanta have to be a slight to Atlanta? A city can be better than another city at certain things. Cities should highlight what they are good at in their own way. DC is very urban, just not anywhere close to the level of NYC. Atlanta is urban too, just not anywhere close to the level of DC.
Having said all of that, different neighborhoods in Atlanta can be more urban than some neighborhoods in DC. Nobody would say Downtown Ward 7 will be more urban than Midtown Atlanta for instance.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 05-31-2021 at 08:05 AM..
LOL
You went from no way WARD 7 or 8 would change to ,"ok maybe ward8 will"
You really sound like you just dont want to accept known patterns everywhere else in the gentrification olympics that are on there way to DCs black neighborhoods.
I provided you with a by the decade population demographic change map showing you EXACTLY whay I said would start off slow before it will be full blown changed.
Even the article specifically mentioned what the map showed that in like other areas whites and Latino will continue to grow in the city while the black pop after years of decline is at best stable.
You see what I did there? I re-evaluated my initial thought and then considered other possibilities. You should try it. Maybe you will succeed in trying to be reasonable so a comparison can be made between two black neighborhoods in both cities without anger and sensitivity. Making a comparison and one neighborhood winning doesn’t mean the other neighborhood isn’t nice and great at what it is. Urban also doesn’t mean better. Urban is a preference and many people prefer suburban and even rural.
I understand what you’re saying about new parks. I understand what you’re saying about them being a catalyst for new development. I also understand that the construction of something new signals new investment to the private sector and more capital flows to those areas. I know what the Beltline is for Atlanta and unlike you for anything I posted about Downtown Ward 7 in this thread, I have complimented the Beltline because it’s awesome many times in this thread. Are you saying the English Avenue area will be a better urban black neighborhood than Downtown Ward 7? If so, their attributes are what we should focus on. It’s supposed to be a competition. How far is Washington Park from the AUC? It was built in 1919 for African Americans? That’s really significant.
Isn’t this a competition to compare which city has the best black urban neighborhoods? I put up Downtown Ward 7 as the best urban black neighborhood moving into this decade. I figured you were trying to stay within the theme and question asked by the OP which was a competition between black urban neighborhoods in both cities. This is from the OP:
Is it wrong to be making a comparison about black neighborhoods judging them by density, urban built form, retail, vibrancy, parks and recreation, and transit? Isn’t that what the thread asked us to do? The OP said which is better for urban living right? This forum is called city vs. city.
If someone asked which city is better for urban living between NYC and DC, I wouldn’t be mad if people said DC has nothing on NYC because it doesn’t. NYC is way more urban than DC. That is not a slight to DC though, that’s just the truth. Why does DC having better black urban neighborhoods than Atlanta have to be a slight to Atlanta? A city can be better than another city at certain things. Cities should highlight what they are good at in their own way. DC is very urban, just not anywhere close to the level of NYC. Atlanta is urban too, just not anywhere close to the level of DC.
Having said all of that, different neighborhoods in Atlanta can be more urban than some neighborhoods in DC. Nobody would say Downtown Ward 7 will be more urban than Midtown Atlanta for instance.
What would make somewhere like Midtown Manhattan more urban than Downtown DC?
I understand what you’re saying about new parks. I understand what you’re saying about them being a catalyst for new development. I also understand that the construction of something new signals new investment to the private sector and more capital flows to those areas. I know what the Beltline is for Atlanta and unlike you for anything I posted about Downtown Ward 7 in this thread, I have complimented the Beltline because it’s awesome many times in this thread. Are you saying the English Avenue area will be a better urban black neighborhood than Downtown Ward 7? If so, their attributes are what we should focus on. It’s supposed to be a competition. How far is Washington Park from the AUC? It was built in 1919 for African Americans? That’s really significant.
Isn’t this a competition to compare which city has the best black urban neighborhoods? I put up Downtown Ward 7 as the best urban black neighborhood moving into this decade. I figured you were trying to stay within the theme and question asked by the OP which was a competition between black urban neighborhoods in both cities. This is from the OP:
Is it wrong to be making a comparison about black neighborhoods judging them by density, urban built form, retail, vibrancy, parks and recreation, and transit? Isn’t that what the thread asked us to do? The OP said which is better for urban living right? This forum is called city vs. city.
If someone asked which city is better for urban living between NYC and DC, I wouldn’t be mad if people said DC has nothing on NYC because it doesn’t. NYC is way more urban than DC. That is not a slight to DC though, that’s just the truth. Why does DC having better black urban neighborhoods than Atlanta have to be a slight to Atlanta? A city can be better than another city at certain things. Cities should highlight what they are good at in their own way. DC is very urban, just not anywhere close to the level of NYC. Atlanta is urban too, just not anywhere close to the level of DC.
Having said all of that, different neighborhoods in Atlanta can be more urban than some neighborhoods in DC. Nobody would say Downtown Ward 7 will be more urban than Midtown Atlanta for instance.
MD its clear you love DC beyond almost what some would consider abnormal. I started out early on by first stating I love DC and it would be my other choice after Atlanta IF it were not FIRSTLY,so cold and SECONDLY ,worth the cost for some but not worth the cost for me in which somehow translated by some of you as simply cant afford to pay for density and urbanity,but I actually said UNWILLING. I can afford to buy almost any new Audi they make to replace my aging but great condition high mileage, eight year old Audi convertible but for me the value I place on a NEW car in my life is not as valuable as someone who buys new cars every four years or so. My car is stylish,I enjoy it and its paid off.
This is how I see me living in Atlanta. Like the the myself,OP who currently lives in Atlanta, already knows Atlantas strengths and weakness . I imagine sometimes you just have to talk things out when its a life altering decision.He knows like every one else knows that the urbanity and especially density is something DC will run away with as its just no competition by most metrics . Nothing said this far should give you any other reason to think anyone has said otherwise.NOTHING. Its all YOU who keep dismissing what Atlanta has every time I bring up something as close to comparable as possible in Atlanta to DC.
Im here so I must be ok with Atlanta as it is.As much as I love DC ,I can see me ever moving there for the reasons Ive given previosuly.
So this is why he probably made a point about urbanity. Urbanity may not be as deep or abundant as in DC but its there in Atlanta. This is an individual choice.I a honestly think Atlanta black neighborhoods will remain with more of a black population than DC as its already been the case. I believe home ownership will be more attainable in Atlanta for more blacks than DC even though thats still gonna be a major problem for both cities.
When I mentioned Oakland City you got all up in arms about it not being urban because of lack of sidewalks in some places when i clearly said the area is seeing renewal and once again WE ALREADY KNOW ATLANTA ISNT URBAN LIKE DC!!
So if we all know this why keep beating a dead horse? My point is you tale Atlanta as it is or move elsewhere but its you,not me who want to keep up this argument thats been laid to rest many moons ago.
If we know this is the case then we have to address why he would even consider Atlanta as an option in the first place when you got cities like Philly that has better black neighborhoods I think than any city in the country when it comes to straight up urbanity and nothing else.
I assume things like economy is one major consideration as well as things like black inclusion,entrepreneurship(black owned businesses),cost of living,safety ,the future of those hoods and other factors
I like how you word things ever so snide. Not once have I said anything negative about DC other than some observations. As you put it,"DC being a better city has to make Atlanta less is a city is not my sentiment but yours.
I accept Atlanta as it is.Not trying to make it DC like you are. When I said concrete jungle i really wasnt even thinking about parks as the basis of that statement. I was thinking in terms of mainly aesthetics in those black DC neighborhoods as opposed to those in Atlanta . So when I said it,I said it rhetorically .It wasnt a definitive statement as Im not sure why the OP would consider Atlanta as a choice if it didnt offer enough for him to consider,but you ran with it like it was a statement of facts.Went off about Park Score and insinuating Atlanta needed more parks when it has built probably built more parks or expanded them in the last 10 years than any other major city in US. Most of them are in black neighborhoods.
I siad what I said because I have been to DC many times and DC is more of a concrete jungle and while in Ward 7 some residents have a patch of grass,its not like Atlanta inner city neighborhoods. A back alley is not a yard where a kid can play relatively safely or you can have a bit or privacy in your own space.
Quote:
Atlanta might frequently be knocked for its relative dearth of public parks. But if true “livab ility” can be calculated by how much green space a single resident can enjoy, the ATL takes the cake as the nation’s “most livable city.”
That’s according to a newly published study by transportation-focused data analytics company GeoTab.
Per GeoTab’s new report, “Urban Footprint: The Allocation of Space in U.S. Cities,” Atlanta boasts more green space per person than any other major U.S. city.
The city includes 17.8 square miles of green space, meaning each of its 486,290 residents could, in theory, enjoy their own 1,023 square feet of parks, forests, and other greenery within an urban landscape.
As I said about The Trust for Public Lands methodology,gives people like you who think those publications are the only gospel but things like density affects how many parks are needed and utilize. Why build parks if you dont have people to use them? Same with sidewalks. It many places in the South its just too hot. I live in a suburb now and while they are widening roads and building sidewalks,NO ONE IS USING THEM. Or rarely at least.
People do spend a lot of time in their yards as there are an abundance of trees to keep people shaded from the heat. In some of the poorest neighbirhoods of Atlanta you have rolling hills and just sea of green lushness everywhere.
When I lived downtown in the hood flipping houses,there was an open field just two doors down from my house. It used to be a small apartment complex, I would go there and let my dogs spread there legs even though Washington Park was just four blocks away. Thats the thing about a city thats not so dense you dont realize. A park isnt needed if you have options.
As ive already told you Washington Park is less than a 10 minute walk as well as other smaller parks that are closer.
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