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You see what I did there? I re-evaluated my initial thought and then considered other possibilities. You should try it. Maybe you will succeed in trying to be reasonable so a comparison can be made between two black neighborhoods in both cities without anger and sensitivity. Making a comparison and one neighborhood winning doesn’t mean the other neighborhood isn’t nice and great at what it is. Urban also doesn’t mean better. Urban is a preference and many people prefer suburban and even rural.
Yes. I do. Its called "flip flopping". Or "waffling" as a DC political slang so no thanks,I like to think clearly and logically before i post so I dont have to "do what you did there".
What would make somewhere like Midtown Manhattan more urban than Downtown DC?
I wouldnt even bother. He goes on talking about a city can be better at certain things but I say something like DC is more of a concrete jungle than Atlanta ,and he goes on about park space amd first black owned golf courses as if that proves some point.
I am curious to hear the answer to your question as well
I wouldnt even bother. He goes on talking about a city can be better at certain things but I say something like DC is more of a concrete jungle than Atlanta ,and he goes on about park space amd first black owned golf courses as if that proves some point.
I am curious to hear the answer to your question as well
Atlanta definitely isn’t a concrete jungle like New York, DC, San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia
Atlanta definitely isn’t a concrete jungle like New York, DC, San Francisco, Chicago, Seattle, Philadelphia
That, I believe, we can agree on.
I'd hope not. Atlanta and Seattle are much more similar to each other in any aspect of being a concrete jungle than Seattle and NYC--which you've grouped together--are. With such a huge gap in place, there's no reason to not include Atlanta except if you're being arbitrary about it since in doing so, the term is essentially rendered meaningless. And conceptually, DC was built as an anti-concrete jungle of sorts. It doesn't qualify as such either.
MD its clear you love DC beyond almost what some would consider abnormal. I started out early on by first stating I love DC and it would be my other choice after Atlanta IF it were not FIRSTLY,so cold and SECONDLY ,worth the cost for some but not worth the cost for me in which somehow translated by some of you as simply cant afford to pay for density and urbanity,but I actually said UNWILLING. I can afford to buy almost any new Audi they make to replace my aging but great condition high mileage, eight year old Audi convertible but for me the value I place on a NEW car in my life is not as valuable as someone who buys new cars every four years or so. My car is stylish,I enjoy it and its paid off.
This is how I see me living in Atlanta. Like the the myself,OP who currently lives in Atlanta, already knows Atlantas strengths and weakness . I imagine sometimes you just have to talk things out when its a life altering decision.He knows like every one else knows that the urbanity and especially density is something DC will run away with as its just no competition by most metrics . Nothing said this far should give you any other reason to think anyone has said otherwise.NOTHING. Its all YOU who keep dismissing what Atlanta has every time I bring up something as close to comparable as possible in Atlanta to DC.
Im here so I must be ok with Atlanta as it is.As much as I love DC ,I can see me ever moving there for the reasons Ive given previosuly.
So this is why he probably made a point about urbanity. Urbanity may not be as deep or abundant as in DC but its there in Atlanta. This is an individual choice.I a honestly think Atlanta black neighborhoods will remain with more of a black population than DC as its already been the case. I believe home ownership will be more attainable in Atlanta for more blacks than DC even though thats still gonna be a major problem for both cities.
When I mentioned Oakland City you got all up in arms about it not being urban because of lack of sidewalks in some places when i clearly said the area is seeing renewal and once again WE ALREADY KNOW ATLANTA ISNT URBAN LIKE DC!!
So if we all know this why keep beating a dead horse? My point is you tale Atlanta as it is or move elsewhere but its you,not me who want to keep up this argument thats been laid to rest many moons ago.
If we know this is the case then we have to address why he would even consider Atlanta as an option in the first place when you got cities like Philly that has better black neighborhoods I think than any city in the country when it comes to straight up urbanity and nothing else.
I assume things like economy is one major consideration as well as things like black inclusion,entrepreneurship(black owned businesses),cost of living,safety ,the future of those hoods and other factors
I like how you word things ever so snide. Not once have I said anything negative about DC other than some observations. As you put it,"DC being a better city has to make Atlanta less is a city is not my sentiment but yours.
I accept Atlanta as it is.Not trying to make it DC like you are. When I said concrete jungle i really wasnt even thinking about parks as the basis of that statement. I was thinking in terms of mainly aesthetics in those black DC neighborhoods as opposed to those in Atlanta . So when I said it,I said it rhetorically .It wasnt a definitive statement as Im not sure why the OP would consider Atlanta as a choice if it didnt offer enough for him to consider,but you ran with it like it was a statement of facts.Went off about Park Score and insinuating Atlanta needed more parks when it has built probably built more parks or expanded them in the last 10 years than any other major city in US. Most of them are in black neighborhoods.
I siad what I said because I have been to DC many times and DC is more of a concrete jungle and while in Ward 7 some residents have a patch of grass,its not like Atlanta inner city neighborhoods. A back alley is not a yard where a kid can play relatively safely or you can have a bit or privacy in your own space.
As I said about The Trust for Public Lands methodology,gives people like you who think those publications are the only gospel but things like density affects how many parks are needed and utilize. Why build parks if you dont have people to use them? Same with sidewalks. It many places in the South its just too hot. I live in a suburb now and while they are widening roads and building sidewalks,NO ONE IS USING THEM. Or rarely at least.
People do spend a lot of time in their yards as there are an abundance of trees to keep people shaded from the heat. In some of the poorest neighbirhoods of Atlanta you have rolling hills and just sea of green lushness everywhere.
When I lived downtown in the hood flipping houses,there was an open field just two doors down from my house. It used to be a small apartment complex, I would go there and let my dogs spread there legs even though Washington Park was just four blocks away. Thats the thing about a city thats not so dense you dont realize. A park isnt needed if you have options.
As ive already told you Washington Park is less than a 10 minute walk as well as other smaller parks that are closer.
You made a point about public investment that will be a catalyst for private investment when you spoke about the Beltline. DC already has parks and excellent mass transit so those aren’t areas DC has focused their investment dollars in regards to Ward 7 and 8. The city has instead used every tool in their toolbox to incentivize mixed use retail and grocery anchored developments. We obviously can’t see into the future, but we can make predictions. You predict DC neighborhoods will not remain black in Ward 7 and I predict that they will. Only time will tell what the neighborhood demographics will be moving forward. I think the Beltline is great, but the areas that need that investment the most have not benefited yet. DC has been deliberate in their approach to bring economic development to areas that have been overlooked for centuries east of the river.
Can you honestly say you know of an area in the black areas of Atlanta with more happening than this below? We don’t need to discuss how urban these areas are now or what parks they have. We can strictly talk about developments coming and what amenities the OP will have at his disposal when he is ready to move:
Northeast Heights
-1355 housing units
-200,000 sq. feet of retail
-241,000 sq. feet of office space
New Columbia Town Center
-674 housing units
-100,000 sq. feet of retail
Market 7
-14,000 sq. feet of retail
Parkside
-1500 housing units
-50,000 sq. feet of retail
-850,000 sq. feet of office space
Fletcher Johnson
-816 Units
-20,000 sq. feet of retail
Skyland Town Center
-500 Units
-156,000 sq. feet of retail
-131,300 sq. feet of office space
You made a point about public investment that will be a catalyst for private investment when you spoke about the Beltline. DC already has parks and excellent mass transit so those aren’t areas DC has focused their investment dollars in regards to Ward 7 and 8. The city has instead used every tool in their toolbox to incentivize mixed use retail and grocery anchored developments. We obviously can’t see into the future, but we can make predictions. You predict DC neighborhoods will not remain black in Ward 7 and I predict that they will. Only time will tell what the neighborhood demographics will be moving forward. I think the Beltline is great, but the areas that need that investment the most have not benefited yet. DC has been deliberate in their approach to bring economic development to areas that have been overlooked for centuries east of the river.
Can you honestly say you know of an area in the black areas of Atlanta with more happening than this below? We don’t need to discuss how urban these areas are now or what parks they have. We can strictly talk about developments coming and what amenities the OP will have at his disposal when he is ready to move:
Northeast Heights
-1355 housing units
-200,000 sq. feet of retail
-241,000 sq. feet of office space
New Columbia Town Center
-674 housing units
-100,000 sq. feet of retail
Market 7
-14,000 sq. feet of retail
Parkside
-1500 housing units
-50,000 sq. feet of retail
-850,000 sq. feet of office space
Fletcher Johnson
-816 Units
-20,000 sq. feet of retail
Skyland Town Center
-500 Units
-156,000 sq. feet of retail
-131,300 sq. feet of office space
Only if you exclude gentrifying neighborhoods. Otherwise, I can tell you the pre-Beltline Old Fourth Ward and the post-Beltline Old Fourth Ward are two very different neighborhoods.
I'd hope not. Atlanta and Seattle are much more similar to each other in any aspect of being a concrete jungle than Seattle and NYC--which you've grouped together--are. With such a huge gap in place, there's no reason to not include Atlanta except if you're being arbitrary about it since in doing so, the term is essentially rendered meaningless. And conceptually, DC was built as an anti-concrete jungle of sorts. It doesn't qualify as such either.
i got what he was doing so I ignored it. The main reason I like DC is because of its natural setting reminds me more of Atlanta than any other major city of equal prominence.
Only if you exclude gentrifying neighborhoods. Otherwise, I can tell you the pre-Beltline Old Fourth Ward and the post-Beltline Old Fourth Ward are two very different neighborhoods.
I consider them similar to what NOMA, Union Market, Navy Yard, the Wharf, Buzzard Point, Trinidad, Columbia Heights, Shaw, etc. were. They all used to be urban core black neighborhoods that have experienced gentrification. I think that is true for gentrified neighborhoods all over the country. The private sector has organically developed areas with demand and potential for investment.
The neighborhoods far from downtown and disconnected from the economic engine that need the investment are currently not getting any attention and will still not get any attention unless the government subsidizes it. It’s a problem for all cities. Investment only happens where demand exists. That’s what separates DC in this instance.
DC has combined two TIF packages, city government agency relocations, Opportunity Zone funding, and direct subsidy of $58 million included in this years budget to build out grocery stores and restaurant spaces in Ward 7 and Ward 8. There isn’t a city anywhere else in America doing this, but they could if they had the political will. That’s how you end food deserts. Cities have to put their money where their mouth is. The problem is competing interests. Most cities don’t want to use tax dollars to subsidize restaurants and grocery stores in low income black neighborhoods way on the outskirts of their cities. They say there is no demand, but they can provide subsidies to make it feasible.
All the developments I’m posting aren’t happening organically at all. The city has thrown the kitchen sink at the problem and it’s working. Rents will be lower than everywhere in the city. They will even be lower than Prince George’s County because of the subsidy. But there will be no income restrictions.
The Crest just delivered at Skyland Town Center and rents start at $1,435 for 1-bedrooms:
You made a point about public investment that will be a catalyst for private investment when you spoke about the Beltline. DC already has parks and excellent mass transit so those aren’t areas DC has focused their investment dollars in regards to Ward 7 and 8. The city has instead used every tool in their toolbox to incentivize mixed use retail and grocery anchored developments. We obviously can’t see into the future, but we can make predictions. You predict DC neighborhoods will not remain black in Ward 7 and I predict that they will. Only time will tell what the neighborhood demographics will be moving forward. I think the Beltline is great, but the areas that need that investment the most have not benefited yet. DC has been deliberate in their approach to bring economic development to areas that have been overlooked for centuries east of the river.
Can you honestly say you know of an area in the black areas of Atlanta with more happening than this below? We don’t need to discuss how urban these areas are now or what parks they have. We can strictly talk about developments coming and what amenities the OP will have at his disposal when he is ready to move:
Northeast Heights
-1355 housing units
-200,000 sq. feet of retail
-241,000 sq. feet of office space
New Columbia Town Center
-674 housing units
-100,000 sq. feet of retail
Market 7
-14,000 sq. feet of retail
Parkside
-1500 housing units
-50,000 sq. feet of retail
-850,000 sq. feet of office space
Fletcher Johnson
-816 Units
-20,000 sq. feet of retail
Skyland Town Center
-500 Units
-156,000 sq. feet of retail
-131,300 sq. feet of office space
You dont even know what you are talking about and again its evident you arent listening or care to know anything about what Atlanta. Like always with a DC topic all you do is endless homerism. Its not a debate you want. Its a pulpit. Im done with you.
Relative to the areas in question,Atlanta is made differently. We do have dingle family housing on smaller lots whereas in DC they are more Multifamily. Atlanta has more of a mix. Its hard to say. How do you put a price on things like the Beltline and new parks or community centers ? Things that encourages development? Is the goal having a concrete jungle or a place that is inviting to new and old residents?Adding up feet of development I dont think really shows whats going on in those neighborhoods,
Gotta be a good mix of investment that is trans formative beyond just new buildings
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne
My comment was about it becoming that because all the stuff he was posting was large commercial developments which is why I asked after giving examples to what has been going on in Atlantas poorest neighborhoods with the Beltline, new parks and things like bike infrastructure.
The rest of DC is fine but in most cities.years of neglect of poorer areas hasnt always kept up to the growing and changing neighborhoods needs. All you have to do is go less than an half hour to parts if Baltimore and see what those neighborhoods are like.
Wait...did you really just get on me about not flip flopping....
Mutiny says this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I'd hope not. Atlanta and Seattle are much more similar to each other in any aspect of being a concrete jungle than Seattle and NYC--which you've grouped together--are. With such a huge gap in place, there's no reason to not include Atlanta except if you're being arbitrary about it since in doing so, the term is essentially rendered meaningless. And conceptually, DC was built as an anti-concrete jungle of sorts. It doesn't qualify as such either.
And then you say this....
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne
i got what he was doing so I ignored it. The main reason I like DC is because of its natural setting reminds me more of Atlanta than any other major city of equal prominence.
And you accused me of flip flopping?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleverOne
Yes. I do. Its called "flip flopping". Or "waffling" as a DC political slang so no thanks,I like to think clearly and logically before i post so I dont have to "do what you did there".
Im sorry but you are delusional
And you just went from DC is a concrete jungle or could become one to now it has a natural setting? I guess because Mutiny said it and not me, you were able to agree with it. How does a city designed to not be a concrete jungle in a natural setting become one?
Last edited by MDAllstar; 06-01-2021 at 03:44 PM..
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