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No, you're wrong actually. I was giving Atlanta the benefit of the doubt because I figured if young Black professionals move into new Class A buildings in Black neighborhoods near Metro stations in the DC metro area, why wouldn't they do the same in Black neighborhoods near MARTA in the Atlanta metro area?
All these buildings are over 90% Black in the DC metro area:
Mutiny, we have spoken about this, and I do remember you saying Atlanta isn't like DC in this respect. Young Black professionals down in Atlanta don't move into new developments at the same rate as those in DC. I was merely asking if maybe that would change if those new buildings were located in Black neighborhoods, but I guess it won't matter regardless of where they get built. I don't think it's a bad thing to want a vibrant, walkable, urban, Black neighborhood in cities all over the nation full of Black owned restaurants, bars, and entertainment venues with urban dense housing.
I made a statement in the past about the "type" of Black person that moves to DC or NYC etc. versus Atlanta, Dallas, or Houston etc. and maybe I was right. Black people in search of a fast-paced urban lifestyle with high density choose DC or NYC and Black people that prefer a slower more spread-out lifestyle with space and less people choose Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas etc. They would rather be able to find easy and cheap parking and aren't going to walk all over the city.
Atlanta's young Black professionals are simply much more dispersed throughout the metro area than they are in the DMV, where folks who didn't know any better could be forgiven for getting the impression that anything not in SE, NE, PG, or Silver Spring is a sundown town from the way Black folks tend to talk, or not talk, about the rest of the metro area. Even with the southern half of metro Atlanta being heavily Black, other parts of the metro are decently mixed racially and it shows.
But beyond that, I don't think many of us realize just how hellish urban living was for Black folks throughout the 20th century. I know we romanticize our prominent Black neighborhoods during their heydays and they were indeed treasures, but there's a reason those of us who could bolt at the first opportunity did so in the 60s/70s. And let's not forget that those legacy Black neighborhoods back in the day were neighborhoods we were constrained into; it wasn't a result of our own free choices. I'll always choose freedom to go and live where I desire over being crammed into a few urban neighborhoods by the government, even if it resulted in little Harlems springing up all over the country.
Of course not, those cities are much larger and older regardless of the current state of the city. I think Atlanta is on the right path and our urban transformation is happening through infill and public projects like our numerous walking trails and the beltline. We are building transit, but since the state continues to hold the city back, the transit takes longer to come online. Our state government even lets federal funding expire (Clayton to Macon rail for example). It's why I hate that I have to leave for a more urban environment. I know we're on the way but there are so many obstacles to clear. The want for a better urban environment is there though and you see it with the many urbanists that come out of the city and how popular development news and project updates are with Atlantans.
I say if you want a Black urban neighborhood, then go for the gusto and move to Brooklyn.
Atlanta's young Black professionals are simply much more dispersed throughout the metro area than they are in the DMV, where folks who didn't know any better could be forgiven for getting the impression that anything not in SE, NE, PG, or Silver Spring is a sundown town from the way Black folks tend to talk, or not talk, about the rest of the metro area. Even with the southern half of metro Atlanta being heavily Black, other parts of the metro are decently mixed racially and it shows.
But beyond that, I don't think many of us realize just how hellish urban living was for Black folks throughout the 20th century. I know we romanticize our prominent Black neighborhoods during their heydays and they were indeed treasures, but there's a reason those of us who could bolt at the first opportunity did so in the 60s/70s. And let's not forget that those legacy Black neighborhoods back in the day were neighborhoods we were constrained into; it wasn't a result of our own free choices. I'll always choose freedom to go and live where I desire over being crammed into a few urban neighborhoods by the government, even if it resulted in little Harlems springing up all over the country.
People have the choice to live anywhere they want. That is not up for debate here. The question is about choice. If I'm a Black professional and I move to Atlanta with a desire to live in an urban neighborhood surrounded by people that look like me, where can I go? That is what "is" up for debate. You are speaking for those Black people without a desire to live in urban neighborhoods surrounded by people that look like them.
I think Demonta and I are asking where Black people should move that actually "want" an urban neighborhood surrounded by people that look like them. Are you saying they can't move to Atlanta? If that is the case, shouldn't we be asking why that is the case? Shouldn't we be asking why our Black neighborhoods lack new urban development with restaurants and amenities in places like Bankhead? Shouldn't we be demanding that the City of Atlanta do something to bring those things to our neighborhoods without displacing us?
Demonta made a comment that is crucial in this discussion. The comment was "development is taking too long" referring to development in Black neighborhoods in Atlanta.
I say if you want a Black urban neighborhood, then go for the gusto and move to Brooklyn.
Isn't that the same line of thinking people have when they say if you would like to get away from oppressive laws and views, leave southern states like Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, etc. controlled by Republicans? I think people should be fighting to build urban environments in their own communities if they want them. How do you think all these new restaurants and new buildings are coming to Ward 7 and Ward 8 in DC?
I remember when this thread started 2-years ago, half the posters were taken back that I suggested Ward 7 and Ward 8 because both areas lacked restaurants and grocery stores. I told everyone what was coming, but they said I was crazy. Fast forward to 2022 and everything I said is coming to fruition. You have to fight for investment in Black neighborhoods. That is the only way change will come.
I think Black people in the DMV prefer to live around educated, professional, and dynamic people from the African American diaspora unapologetically. They prefer seeing wealthy Black people doing well for themselves in their communities, schools, clubs, churches, etc. Black Hollywood and Black show business may be in Atlanta, but the professional Black scene is located in DC and that is measured by doctors, attorneys, engineers, businessman, etc., etc. I think the census data on professions by metro area proved that. BajanYankee has posted it numerous times.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 02-03-2022 at 12:09 AM..
I believe there's an influx of Black people such as myself who would love the option of living in urban environments but realize that might not be the best decision when you have a family involved. Now I'll only speak on 3 cities I studied well enough to know why some Black families would opt for the burbs instead of the city. Atlanta/ Houston/Dallas
Now I'm fully aware that the core of each of these sprawling suburban cities pale in comparison to the Northeast however there's a clear distinction in some of the most urban areas of these cities than their suburban counterparts. Especially in Atlanta. So here's a list of things Black families have to deal with when considering suburbs vs. urban in 2022.
1) Schools- I've searched long in hard in all 3 cities for good schools for Black students. I searched for diversity, test scores, extra circular activities, science & technology programs. I notice the more urban an area is in the city the worst the public school is on all levels. Now you do have the alternative to enroll your child in a charter/Magnet schools. The best schools in the most urban settings for Black students seem to be charter schools. Now you either A) have to enroll and hope your child gets in the lottery. B) Make below the median income. or C) Be zoned to a lower income area. This is one of the main reasons why I passed on living in a Urban setting. Ironically my child attends a really good magnet school in a historically Black neighborhood here in Houston (where my Wife's family is from). We're way out of the school zone but we were able to get in because of my Wife had connections with some of the staff at the school. This is only through PreK-K though.
2) Job locations- Job location might be another option for Black people choosing the burbs. Case and point, when we first moved to Atlanta we were staying at my cousins apartment located in Lindbergh. Now he was a bachelor(no kids) and worked in Midtown. He loved to be close to all the action. My Wife worked in Dunwoody and I worked in Duluth. That commute was HELL for the first month we were there. We eventually got our own place in Chamblee(mind you at the time we didn't have a child so we didn't worry about things like school). Chamblee was an "ideal" location IMO. 24 mins to work, my Wife job was less than 15 mins and we were less than 30 mins from downtown, midtown, buckhead and the Northern burbs. Living in that part of Atlanta I realized most of the good jobs are located North of I-20. Even though there's a ton of Black people that live North of I-20, the majority of Black people in Atlanta live below I-20. I couldn't even imagine trying to get to work from Clayton county or Southwest Atlanta. I also realized when I explored the idea of moving back to Atlanta this time with child in mind that if I wanted the combo of easy commute to work, quality of life and good diverse schools that my best option would be the burbs. Couldn't do a inner burb like Chamblee, not to mention it's much more expensive to buy a house or even rent there than when I lived there in 2015-2017.
So it becomes apparent to me that Black people and more specifically Black families don't have the variety of options to pick spaces in this country like our White counterparts. I mean you can move anywhere you want to but you'll have to make some sacrifices. You'll have to compromise something. White Americans generally don't have to compromise things attributed to race. And I know someone is going to say, "That's why we should stay in our own neighborhoods so they won't gentrify them. Black people run away to the burbs!" Yeah I hear you, but let's say I go to the city and say to hell with the burbs. Than what? If I want the option of good schools I'm either sacrificing my child's education or putting her in a school that's predominately White which defeats the purpose of being in a predominantly Black space to begin with.
This is where we're at by and large in America. And frankly flocking to these cities the way many of us did during the great migration probably was short-sighted and not a very sound decision in the long run. Because look where we're at today. I don't know what to tell you.
In terms of the last part, why do you think that is the case? I also ask that given some of the information in the Northeastern middle class black thread.
^Which is why Atlanta will never be in the ranks of cities like DC, Chicago, New York, Philly, Boston, SF, etc no matter how much its suburbs grow. Even LA (which is notorious for sprawl) realized that going that way isn't sustainble and is heavily investing in public transit and walkability. LA is probably building the most public transit of any US city currently including Seattle. Meanwhile Atlanta has exploded in population and MARTA as not been updated in over 2 decades... Even declining cities like Detroit is making moves with its transit meanwhile MARTA has been doing "sTuDiEs" "rEpOrTs" and "sUrVeyS" for years with nothing to show for it. Damn near all the current MARTA stations look terrible and blight-ridden surrounded by parking lots and strip malls, meanwhile DC's probably has the most clean metro of any city and has tons of TOD surrounding the stations.
Sorry, but Atlanta just feels like an oversized suburb, DC is an actual city, and for the OP's question, it's DC all the way. Someone (like me) whose looking for urbanity, walkability, and vibrancy in a city will be extremely dissapointed with Atlanta. I will say, the thing they got going with the Beltline/PCM/Midtown is great, one of the few parts of Atlanta i actually felt at home at. But yeah the other areas? downtown is a dump, cant even compare it with DC. Buckhead is cool but its a car sewer, Piedmont road is damn near a highway. Midtown and the betline area feel like the only true urban parts of the city. I would add West Midtown but Howell Mill and the general urban planning around that area is a disaster. The buildings are nice tho.
With the exception of D.C. and Boston why are those cities you mentioned losing so many Black people than? Here they are building infrastructure that can only benefit us yet when I visit those cities I don't see many of US living in those particular enclaves.
Take for instance, Philly. That's the last city I just visited a couple of months ago. I'm a walker, I love urbanity even though I live in Houston I'd prefer to walk pretty much everywhere. Me and my Wife stayed in Rittenhouse square and pretty much walked everywhere, used an uber or septa. One thing I noticed right off the bat is that Philly has a lot of black people but they don't live in the urban areas with high quality of life and full of professionalisms. In LA, you can forget about seeing a plethora of Black people in places that are becoming more urban. And make no mistake a lot of America's premier cities that you speak so highly about are in a state of decline too along with these declining sprawling burbs.
In my opinion, Atlanta is a lot cleaner than cities like NYC,LA,SF, and especially Philly. Now cities like Chicago, Boston and DC seem pretty clean but imo Atlanta doesn't look like a blighted declining city. Even their burbs have a bit of pop quirk to it.
What you want is urbanity, vibrancy and walkability. That's perfectly fine. But I think the vast majority of Black Americans moving out of those cities don't think the urbanity, vibrancy and walkability are good enough to remain in those cities.
People have the choice to live anywhere they want. That is not up for debate here. The question is about choice. If I'm a Black professional and I move to Atlanta with a desire to live in an urban neighborhood surrounded by people that look like me, where can I go? That is what "is" up for debate. You are speaking for those Black people without a desire to live in urban neighborhoods surrounded by people that look like them.
I think Demonta and I are asking where Black people should move that actually "want" an urban neighborhood surrounded by people that look like them. Are you saying they can't move to Atlanta? If that is the case, shouldn't we be asking why that is the case? Shouldn't we be asking why our Black neighborhoods lack new urban development with restaurants and amenities in places like Bankhead? Shouldn't we be demanding that the City of Atlanta do something to bring those things to our neighborhoods without displacing us?
Demonta made a comment that is crucial in this discussion. The comment was "development is taking too long" referring to development in Black neighborhoods in Atlanta.
The Black people who want this sort of thing that badly don't move to Atlanta because it's not Atlanta's "specialty" so to speak. It is what it is.
Isn't that the same line of thinking people have when they say if you would like to get away from oppressive laws and views, leave southern states like Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, etc. controlled by Republicans? I think people should be fighting to build urban environments in their own communities if they want them. How do you think all these new restaurants and new buildings are coming to Ward 7 and Ward 8 in DC?
And apparently there's not a critical mass of Black folks in Atlanta who want this as bad as you seemingly do. That's not tantamount to some kind of "oppressive" situation though.
And frankly flocking to these cities the way many of us did during the great migration probably was short-sighted and not a very sound decision in the long run. Because look where we're at today. I don't know what to tell you.
Although I agree with the rest of your post, I strongly disagree with this point in particular. It's way too easy for people to say certain decisions were short-sighted when they have the benefit of hindsight nearly 80-100 years after the fact. The fact of the matter is that Black folks realized actual substantial gains during the Great Migration, especially the second wave during WWII when we didn't have to worry about competition from immigrants. The only thing we misjudged was the nature of racism in American society and how pervasive, irretractable, and adaptive it was and still is.
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