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Exactly. That area of pedestrian traffic, which spans about a block and a half, is comparable to the area around the West End Marta station in Atlanta.
The area of pedestrian traffic is 0.5 miles long running down Minnesota Avenue from the Minnesota Avenue Metro station at Grant Street across from Friendship Collegiate High School all the way to the Citgo Gas Station at Blaine Street. I think Mutiny and I can both agree that we don't need to teach people in other parts of the country who don't live in DC like you and BostonBorn what this area is like. You don't know and I wouldn't expect you to know.
You can't google street view your way to pedestrian feel which I think is pretty understanding for most people on city-data other than you I guess. I realized this was futile when I posted a video of pedestrian traffic and you and BostonBorn tried to say all those people walked from miles around out their homes to congregate when they heard the car accident versus just being on the street walking while it happened as normal pedestrian traffic. It's not surprising though because for some people, even when they see things with their own eyes, they still try to find excuses for why they are still right.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Minnesota and Benning are not particularly vibrant....heavy car traffic and a decent amount of foot traffic but nothing unusual, definitely not one of the most vibrant parts of DC.
Atlantic Station in Atlanta looked super average.
Only Bajan's trolling could successfully throw in LA and Atlantic Station, in a thread discussing the urbanity of NE and SE DC vs Atlanta, and people take the bait commenting on it.
In response to your point, I think there's levels to this. There's vibrancy, and then there's simply just people outside on an urban street. Vibrancy to me is consistent street walls with people on both sides consistently either walking in and out of store fronts and/or sitting outside eating etc. Along with vehicular traffic, bicycle traffic, taxis, and people going in and out of the subway system.
Places like Minnesota Ave and Benning Rd for DC, and the West End mall area by the Marta in Atlanta, are probably closer to the "people outside" category, than classically vibrant. Although, Benning/Minnesota is more cohesively vibrant on the main urban strip than West End. When I lived in Atlanta I used to drop my cousin off at that West End mall station all the time. It's people outside walking there, but Minnesota is more cohesive. That new development may change this for West End though, that looks good.
I'll throw in that there are certain intersections in SE that are more than just "people outside" Benning Rd Metro, is vibrant. That area has foot traffic all over, as well as MLK in Anacostia. Good Hope Rd is in between.
Last edited by the resident09; 05-17-2020 at 12:16 PM..
That's not really true. Northwest DC has always been denser and more walkable than Southeast DC because it was built out earlier and never had the same degree of poverty and urban removal/industrial use as other quadrants. There was nothing in Southeast comparable to Georgia Avenue in the 1990s and there's nothing in Southeast comparable to Georgia Avenue today.
You are so sad. For everyone reading this thread, I give you NW DC back in the 1980s and 1990s:
Only Bajan's trolling could successfully throw in LA and Atlantic Station, in a thread discussing the urbanity of NE and SE DC vs Atlanta, and people take the bait commenting on it.
In response to your point, I think there's levels to this. There's vibrancy, and then there's simply just people outside on an urban street. Vibrancy to me is consistent street walls with people on both sides consistently either walking in and out of store fronts and/or sitting outside eating etc. Along with vehicular traffic, bicycle traffic, taxis, and people going in and out of the subway system.
Places like Minnesota Ave and Benning Rd for DC, and the West End mall area by the Marta in Atlanta, are probably closer to the "people outside" category, than classically vibrant. Although, Benning/Minnesota is more cohesively vibrant on the main urban strip than West End. When I lived in Atlanta I used to drop my cousin off at that West End mall station all the time. It's people outside walking there, but Minnesota is more cohesive. That new development may change this for West End though, that looks good.
I'll throw in that there are certain intersections in SE that are more than just "people outside" Benning Rd Metro, is vibrant. That area has foot traffic all over, as well as MLK in Anacostia. Good Hope Rd is in between.
That’s all I’m saying it’s more people outside/in stores. Not really “vibrant” nor is it the desired urban environment that I think OP is looking for. There are better options, but for the most part they’re not necessarily retail heavy .
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,560,868 times
Reputation: 5785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
That’s all I’m saying it’s more people outside/in stores. Not really “vibrant” nor is it the desired urban environment that I think OP is looking for. There are better options, but for the most part they’re not necessarily retail heavy .
Well to backup what MD was saying, that one stretch of Minnesota on NE is headed in that direction with the upcoming developments planned. Just like West End mall has that planned re-development in Atlanta. Minnesota Ave will fill in, and those one story retail buildings are expected to be replaced by a street wall, and ground level retail. I think what is being criticized by some is the "look" of the new development having a generic face, but I'm not sure what else you can ask of a developer trying to improve the face of the neighborhood and add retail/vibrancy.
Those photos are not new to me. They readily available.
These are heavily blighted intersections with abandoned mom and pop walk up storefronts.
Benning Road and Minnesota is neither anywhere near as blighted not as classicalMy urban/local.
Totally different things you’re equating here.
You must have missed this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
That's not really true. Northwest DC has always been denser and more walkable than Southeast DC because it was built out earlier and never had the same degree of poverty and urban removal/industrial use as other quadrants. There was nothing in Southeast comparable to Georgia Avenue in the 1990s and there's nothing in Southeast comparable to Georgia Avenue today.
So which is it? What you are saying...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
Benning Road and Minnesota is neither anywhere near as blighted
Totally different things you’re equating here.
Or what Bajan is saying?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Northwest DC has always been denser and more walkable than Southeast DC because it was built out earlier and never had the same degree of poverty and urban removal
The two of you need to make up your mind and get on the same page.
Well to backup what MD was saying, that one stretch of Minnesota on NE is headed in that direction with the upcoming developments planned. Just like West End mall has that planned re-development in Atlanta. Minnesota Ave will fill in, and those one story retail buildings are expected to be replaced by a street wall, and ground level retail. I think what is being criticized by some is the "look" of the new development having a generic face, but I'm not sure what else you can ask of a developer trying to improve the face of the neighborhood and add retail/vibrancy.
In your experience in Atlanta, did you see many people walking around anywhere? Every time I'm in Atlanta, it seems like people don't really walk anywhere. The streets are always empty. I remember being in Atlanta for a wedding in 2016 around the 4th of July. I stayed at the W downtown and I took Marta from Civic Center station up to Midtown station and I was walking to get brunch with my friends and there were no people out at 12 noon on a Saturday. It was eerie. It's a big difference between DC. I don't think people have a culture to walk places there. Is it the heat maybe? Too hot?
The two of you need to make up your mind and get on the same page.
You know I’m not speaking for bajan. I’m not in a room with him. And I’m not keeping in mind things he said a day ago. I’m saying what I’m saying, he’s saying what he’s saying.
Either way-the old photos you showed and the Benning road and Minnesota intersection are not comparable.
You know I’m not speaking for bajan. I’m not in a room with him. And I’m not keeping in mind things he said a day ago. I’m saying what I’m saying, he’s saying what he’s saying.
Either way-the old photos you showed and the Benning road and Minnesota intersection are not comparable.
The irony of this whole conversation is I wasn't even talking about the built environment. I entertained what you guys were saying because each of you contradicted each other, but I wasn't even referring to the built environment. Please see below. This is what I said, then Bajan replied with a one liner to change the context, then I responded with what DC people looked like in the 1980s and 1990s, then you replied to my reply to him...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Yeah, the retail there now sucks, but all those tenants have been given notice. East River Shopping Center and Senate Square are both about to be razed and cleared to make way for the Northeast Heights development.
I wasn't talking about the retail, I was talking about all the black people walking around. Did you ever get out of your car and walk along the street. You aren't really going to know how vibrant it is from your car. Anybody who has walked from Minnesota Avenue metro station down Minnesota Avenue and crossed over Benning Road where all the vendors are selling oil, T-shirts, purses, etc. etc. can't tell me that area isn't LIT! I know women who won't even walk through there because of how crazy it is with guys cat calling and people everywhere.
Take it from someone who is from DC, NW intersections used to be just like Minnesota and Benning Rd before development hit DC beginning in the early 2000s. DC was the murder capitol for a reason. Then gentrification came through and the DC you guys now know looks like it does in 2020. The same thing is about to happen to this area, however, young black professionals are the ones buying houses and condos instead of white people so the area will get even more vibrant, but with nice stores and professional black people living in luxury apartments above the retail.
So as you can see, Bajan cherry picked what he quoted and you didn't read what the historical context was for what you responded to so you didn't even know what I was talking about. My comment about NW DC was never about the way it looked, it was about ratchet and ghetto looking people walking around which was everywhere in DC back in the 1980s and 1990s.
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