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I guess what I said was a bit convoluted, so let me try to explain it with an example. Walkscore lists a neighborhood as Cleveland Park (also, how neighborhoods are demarcated can be an issue with Walkscore) and gives it a walkscore of 75 which is still listed as Very Walkable but towards the bottom of that. If the 20 point spread is accurate, then every neighborhood at 95 or higher should definitely seem more walkable to you. That's U-Street, Dupont Circle, Mount Vernon Square, Logan Circle - Shaw, Foggy, Bottom - GWU - West End, Adams Morgan, and H Street-NoMa per Walkscore's neighborhood names. Would you agree those all seem to be more urban than Cleveland Park? 20 points from 75 is 55, so anything at 55 or lower should easily be less walkable. Those would be Hillcrest - Fairfax Village, Fort Dupont, Foxhall-Palisades, Michigan Park, Deanwood, and River Terrace - Lily Ponds - Mayfair per Walkscore's neighborhood names. Do those all seem to be less walkable on average than Cleveland Park?
You are going to go around and around in circles with him on this Walk Score thing.
The bottomline is that young professionals seeking to live in inner cities want a lot of amenities within walking distance (transportation, nice restaurants, coffee shops, dry cleaners, etc.). That's the entire point. It's not an either/or proposition between great urban design and nearby amenities. The expectation is that a neighborhood with great urban design will also have amenities within walking distance. If a neighborhood does not have many amenities, it will not be considered vibrant even if it does have good urban bones (see large swaths of Baltimore and Philly), and young professionals generally will not want to live there.
In DC's case, all of the areas with great urban design and walkability are dominated by young White professionals with the less-developed, less pedestrian-friendly sections of the city remaining largely Black. So there's no point even talking about Walk Score since the best neighborhoods in terms of urban design have few Black professionals anyway.
You are going to go around and around in circles with him on this Walk Score thing.
The bottomline is that young professionals seeking to live in inner cities want a lot of amenities within walking distance (transportation, nice restaurants, coffee shops, dry cleaners, etc.). That's the entire point. It's not an either/or proposition between great urban design and nearby amenities. The expectation is that a neighborhood with great urban design will also have amenities within walking distance. If a neighborhood does not have many amenities, it will not be considered vibrant even if it does have good urban bones (see large swaths of Baltimore and Philly), and young professionals generally will not want to live there.
In DC's case, all of the areas with great urban design and walkability are dominated by young White professionals with the less-developed, less pedestrian-friendly sections of the city remaining largely Black. So there's no point even talking about Walk Score since the best neighborhoods in terms of urban design have few Black professionals anyway.
Meh, there's probably a baseline that's still urban enough or walkable enough. Just because a place isn't U Street level of urban doesn't mean it's not urban, so there might still be an urban or walkable enough neighborhood for the OP that still meets the 30% AA ask.
Plus, he pointed out his issues with walkscore and I was trying to figure out if there was at least a loose correlation of scores to how urban he felt a DC neighborhood is. I agree that some neighborhoods seem to have their rankings slightly off from looking at NYC neighborhood scores, but it's usually within several points of each other rather than just completely off the wall. I was curious if that held true for DC as well.
Meh, there's probably a baseline that's still urban enough or walkable enough. Just because a place isn't U Street level of urban doesn't mean it's not urban, so there might still be an urban or walkable enough neighborhood for the OP that still meets the 30% AA ask.
To me, it's pointless to get into much of an argument about what is urban and what isn't. I'm classifying neighborhoods in terms of the types of neighborhoods young people tend to gravitate to and the types of neighborhoods young people do not gravitate to. Young people do not gravitate to Southeast DC because it is more auto-centric with about 80% of households owning a car and a much higher rate of vehicle use in general. It's the type of place people move to after they're done having their fun in the happening areas of the city.
And while I understand that the OP came up with the 30% threshold, I'd caution that that's not even that relevant since we often find neighborhoods where that 30% is comprised mostly of the indigent and elderly. It's not that uncommon to have a neighborhood chock full of White gentrifiers with a Black population that is both old and/or poor. That's why I was posting stats on educational attainment since most Black professionals want to live around Sidney and Dre (the characters from Brown Sugar) and not Lester and Mary (227).
To me, it's pointless to get into much of an argument about what is urban and what isn't. I'm classifying neighborhoods in terms of the types of neighborhoods young people tend to gravitate to and the types of neighborhoods young people do not gravitate to. Young people do not gravitate to Southeast DC because it is more auto-centric with about 80% of households owning a car and a much higher rate of vehicle use in general. It's the type of place people move to after they're done having their fun in the happening areas of the city.
And while I understand that the OP came up with the 30% threshold, I'd caution that that's not even that relevant since we often find neighborhoods where that 30% is comprised mostly of the indigent and elderly. It's not that uncommon to have a neighborhood chock full of White gentrifiers with a Black population that is both old and/or poor. That's why I was posting stats on educational attainment since most Black professionals want to live around Sidney and Dre (the characters from Brown Sugar) and not Lester and Mary (227).
Young people gravitate to Largo and Camp Springs (Branch Avenue) though? Are those areas car centric? All the apartments by the Largo and Branch Avenue metro stations are full of young black professionals and I mean full.
Young people don't move to SE DC because there are no new non-income restricted buildings to move to. Believe me I know, I have a lot of friends that live in those buildings out in Largo and Camp Springs. House parties are full of people out there too and they live there because they can't afford the city and aren't going to live in a older building without amenities. For the first time in D.C.'s history, the new buildings coming up in Ward 7 and Ward 8 are luxury and will not have income restrictions. The price points will be similar to Largo so let's see who chooses to move there.
Young people gravitate to Largo and Camp Springs (Branch Avenue) though? Are those areas car centric? All the apartments by the Largo and Branch Avenue metro stations are full of young black professionals and I mean full.
Young people don't move to SE DC because there are no new non-income restricted buildings to move to. Believe me I know, I have a lot of friends that live in those buildings out in Largo and Camp Springs. House parties are full of people out there too and they live there because they can't afford the city and aren't going to live in a older building without amenities. For the first time in D.C.'s history, the new buildings coming up in Ward 7 and Ward 8 are luxury and will not have income restrictions. The price points will be similar to Largo so let's see who chooses to move there.
Yeah it's important to note that not every young person wants or cares about living in walkable urban areas. Black people tend to be just fine with living in nonwalkable areas. Thats part of the reason suburban areas in every metro are seeing greater black population growth than city centers, for the most part at least.
You are going to go around and around in circles with him on this Walk Score thing.
The bottomline is that young professionals seeking to live in inner cities want a lot of amenities within walking distance (transportation, nice restaurants, coffee shops, dry cleaners, etc.). That's the entire point. It's not an either/or proposition between great urban design and nearby amenities. The expectation is that a neighborhood with great urban design will also have amenities within walking distance. If a neighborhood does not have many amenities, it will not be considered vibrant even if it does have good urban bones (see large swaths of Baltimore and Philly), and young professionals generally will not want to live there.
In DC's case, all of the areas with great urban design and walkability are dominated by young White professionals with the less-developed, less pedestrian-friendly sections of the city remaining largely Black. So there's no point even talking about Walk Score since the best neighborhoods in terms of urban design have few Black professionals anyway.
So if that is the case, my problem with walkscore is a building like this is 0.25 miles from Safeway Grocery Store, CVS, Auto Zone, Public Library, Bank of America, Chase Bank, Citi Bank, Flower Shop, Various Restaurants, Clothing Stores, etc. etc. etc. Also, it's 0.25 miles from the Minnesota Avenue Metro Station, and multiple bus routes, however, the neighborhood has a walkscore of 64.
St. Stephen's apartments is closer (0.25 miles) to more amenities than most people in Shaw or U Street. If you want to count amenities, we can do that.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 05-20-2020 at 04:37 PM..
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