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Right, and the urban neighborhoods that do have a large proportion of black residents are sometimes considered hood and therefore unattractive to many AA professionals. I remember seeing an interview that noted AAs had the lowest amount of income segregation among races in the 1970s with communities having a spectrum of socioeconomic classes, but by 2014, the income segregation among AAs, measured by Gini coefficient, was at that point the highest among races. It's not an entirely bad thing as part of that was less pushback and restrictions in suburban developments against AAs moving in, but it has lead to a really strong concentration and isolation of poverty in urban neighborhoods.
They're also unattractive because they are actually unattractive. There are historical reasons for this, obviously, but a lot of Black urban neighborhoods contain the most noxious industrial and environmental hazards, substandard housing stock, less access to public transportation, etc.
Neighborhoods like Columbia Heights and Logan Circle (both formerly predominantly Black neighborhoods) are real estate gold. They have beautiful housing stock and close proximity/easy access to the CBD. This is also true of Harlem and Bed-Stuy. The "golden" neighborhoods in NYC have remained Black for longer, however, for many reasons already discussed upthread (larger supply of urbanity, rent controls, Black professionals flocking to these neighborhoods almost exclusively). The West End in Atlanta has similar advantages, relatively speaking, but Black professionals tend to disperse all over the metro, so I'm not sure if it will ever see a large mass of Black professionals.
I think the thing that keeps Harlem relatively affordable--and serves as a check against the extremely muscular gentrification we've witnessed in Black neighborhoods in DC--is the presence of large housing projects. While it is true that the LES and even Chelsea have housing projects, they don't have as many, and I think the large concentration of housing projects will always depress market rents Uptown. And these projects aren't going anywhere--in Atlanta, they tore them all down, clearing the way for new development. That would be political suicide in NYC.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 05-21-2020 at 07:57 AM..
They're also unattractive because they are actually unattractive. There are historical reasons for this, obviously, but a lot of Black urban neighborhoods contain the most noxious industrial and environmental hazards, substandard housing stock, less access to public transportation, etc.
Neighborhoods like Columbia Heights and Logan Circle (both formerly predominantly Black neighborhoods) are real estate gold. They have beautiful housing stock and close proximity/easy access to the CBD. This is also true of Harlem and Bed-Stuy. The "golden" neighborhoods in NYC have remained Black for longer, however, for many reasons already discussed upthread (larger supply of urbanity, rent controls, Black professionals flocking to these neighborhoods almost exclusively). The West End in Atlanta has similar advantages, relatively speaking, but Black professionals tend to disperse all over the metro, so I'm not sure if it will ever see a large mass of Black professionals.
Yep, true for the most part. Also, apparently black neighborhoods in US cities are the perfect place to drive a freeway straight through the middle. Maybe it improves fuel economy?
I've also noticed that young Black professionals in DC and NYC seem to go through a certain progression. This does not apply to all, but it's a trend I've definitely noticed.
Lifecycle of the DC Black Professional
Early 20s: Usually moves to DC out of college or professional school. If female, more likely to live in Virginia or Maryland for safety reasons. It also helps that the rents in the suburbs are lower and you generally get more "bang for buck" without sacrificing all that much in terms of commute time.
Mid 20s to early 30s: After establishing a comfort level with the District, develops a desire to live in the city, but not necessarily in any one neighborhood. As a general rule, less likely to live west of Rock Creek Park.
Mid to Late 30s: As the desire to begin a family grows, and faced with the reality of budget constraints, the Black professional will move to Maryland (MoCo if possible for the better schools), or sometimes relocate to the more suburban parts of the District if budget permits.
Lifecycle of the NYC Black Professional
Early 20s: Comes to NYC right after college or grad school. Usually winds up in some ridiculously overpriced Manhattan or Brooklyn neighborhood with roommates and perhaps a bit of parental subsidy. If female, will be more likely to live in "safer" areas of Manhattan out of safety concerns.
Mid 20s to early 30s: Usually gets recruited by a friend living in Harlem or Brooklyn to live in Harlem or Brooklyn. Even though they may live in Midtown or Downtown, they find themselves spending more of their time Uptown or in Brooklyn since that's where all the Black professionals seem to be, so they figure they might as well live there. And since the rent is way cheaper, it's a win-win. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Unlike the DC Black professional who may move anywhere within the District, these people are looking to live between St. Nick and Lenox. In Brooklyn, it's basically east of Ft. Greene Park and north of the Eastern Parkway with Bushwick/Rockaway Ave as the eastern boundary.
Mid to Late 30s: No longer finds the city life as stimulating as they did in their 20s and early 30s. Also tired of paying high taxes. Moves to New Jersey under the delusion that they'll stay connected to the city with such close proximity to Manhattan. Gets engaged or married. Leaves the Tri-State area completely for Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlotte, DC, California, etc.
I've also noticed that young Black professionals in DC and NYC seem to go through a certain progression. This does not apply to all, but it's a trend I've definitely noticed.
Lifecycle of the DC Black Professional
Early 20s: Usually moves to DC out of college or professional school. If female, more likely to live in Virginia or Maryland for safety reasons. It also helps that the rents in the suburbs are lower and you generally get more "bang for buck" without sacrificing all that much in terms of commute time.
Mid 20s to early 30s: After establishing a comfort level with the District, develops a desire to live in the city, but not necessarily in any one neighborhood. As a general rule, less likely to live west of Rock Creek Park.
Mid to Late 30s: As the desire to begin a family grows, and faced with the reality of budget constraints, the Black professional will move to Maryland (MoCo if possible for the better schools), or sometimes relocate to the more suburban parts of the District if budget permits.
Lifecycle of the NYC Black Professional
Early 20s: Comes to NYC right after college or grad school. Usually winds up in some ridiculously overpriced Manhattan or Brooklyn neighborhood with roommates and perhaps a bit of parental subsidy. If female, will be more likely to live in "safer" areas of Manhattan out of safety concerns.
Mid 20s to early 30s: Usually gets recruited by a friend living in Harlem or Brooklyn to live in Harlem or Brooklyn. Even though they may live in Midtown or Downtown, they find themselves spending more of their time Uptown or in Brooklyn since that's where all the Black professionals seem to be, so they figure they might as well live there. And since the rent is way cheaper, it's a win-win. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Unlike the DC Black professional who may move anywhere within the District, these people are looking to live between St. Nick and Lenox. In Brooklyn, it's basically east of Ft. Greene Park and north of the Eastern Parkway with Bushwick/Rockaway Ave as the eastern boundary.
Mid to Late 30s: No longer finds the city life as stimulating as they did in their 20s and early 30s. Also tired of paying high taxes. Moves to New Jersey under the delusion that they'll stay connected to the city with such close proximity to Manhattan. Gets engaged or married. Leaves the Tri-State area completely for Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlotte, DC, California, etc.
LOL, that's hilarious. Although I've only be a frequent visitor, the drive from north Jersey into Manhattan even on the weekend can be a real slog. And the Hudson is WIDE AS HELL and the tolls are no joke. I've only done the train once and even then, it feels like you have to mentally prepare yourself to arrive in the city.
LOL, that's hilarious. Although I've only be a frequent visitor, the drive from north Jersey into Manhattan even on the weekend can be a real slog. And the Hudson is WIDE AS HELL and the tolls are no joke. I've only done the train once and even then, it feels like you have to mentally prepare yourself to arrive in the city.
When a friend breaks the news that he or she is moving to Jersey...
I've also noticed that young Black professionals in DC and NYC seem to go through a certain progression. This does not apply to all, but it's a trend I've definitely noticed.
Lifecycle of the DC Black Professional
Early 20s: Usually moves to DC out of college or professional school. If female, more likely to live in Virginia or Maryland for safety reasons. It also helps that the rents in the suburbs are lower and you generally get more "bang for buck" without sacrificing all that much in terms of commute time.
Mid 20s to early 30s: After establishing a comfort level with the District, develops a desire to live in the city, but not necessarily in any one neighborhood. As a general rule, less likely to live west of Rock Creek Park.
Mid to Late 30s: As the desire to begin a family grows, and faced with the reality of budget constraints, the Black professional will move to Maryland (MoCo if possible for the better schools), or sometimes relocate to the more suburban parts of the District if budget permits.
Lifecycle of the NYC Black Professional
Early 20s: Comes to NYC right after college or grad school. Usually winds up in some ridiculously overpriced Manhattan or Brooklyn neighborhood with roommates and perhaps a bit of parental subsidy. If female, will be more likely to live in "safer" areas of Manhattan out of safety concerns.
Mid 20s to early 30s: Usually gets recruited by a friend living in Harlem or Brooklyn to live in Harlem or Brooklyn. Even though they may live in Midtown or Downtown, they find themselves spending more of their time Uptown or in Brooklyn since that's where all the Black professionals seem to be, so they figure they might as well live there. And since the rent is way cheaper, it's a win-win. It's a self-reinforcing cycle. Unlike the DC Black professional who may move anywhere within the District, these people are looking to live between St. Nick and Lenox. In Brooklyn, it's basically east of Ft. Greene Park and north of the Eastern Parkway with Bushwick/Rockaway Ave as the eastern boundary.
Mid to Late 30s: No longer finds the city life as stimulating as they did in their 20s and early 30s. Also tired of paying high taxes. Moves to New Jersey under the delusion that they'll stay connected to the city with such close proximity to Manhattan. Gets engaged or married. Leaves the Tri-State area completely for Atlanta, Raleigh, Charlotte, DC, California, etc.
Two notes: the DC black professional is much more likely to move to PG than Moco. PG has been the biggest benefactor of DC's black population out migration.
MoCo's black population is heavily first and second generation immigrant. At least 10% is African (Ethiopian, West African, etc.). Not sure how many Caribbean folks are in MoCo. Although it will be interesting to see the 2020 census results to see how MoCo's black population has changed. It's now around 20%.
and as Jersey native, NYC really isn't that far ! LOL. A lot of folks in Jersey no longer have a desire to be in NYC all the time, which is what fueled their desire to move to Jersey in the first place.
I've also noticed that young Black professionals in DC and NYC seem to go through a certain progression. This does not apply to all, but it's a trend I've definitely noticed.
Lifecycle of the DC Black Professional
Early 20s: Usually moves to DC out of college or professional school. If female, more likely to live in Virginia or Maryland for safety reasons. It also helps that the rents in the suburbs are lower and you generally get more "bang for buck" without sacrificing all that much in terms of commute time.
Mid 20s to early 30s: After establishing a comfort level with the District, develops a desire to live in the city, but not necessarily in any one neighborhood. As a general rule, less likely to live west of Rock Creek Park.
Mid to Late 30s: As the desire to begin a family grows, and faced with the reality of budget constraints, the Black professional will move to Maryland (MoCo if possible for the better schools), or sometimes relocate to the more suburban parts of the District if budget permits.
Your Mid 20s to early 30s is off and so is your Mid to late 30s. There are so many more neighborhoods to move to in DC than when you lived here. Bajan, how long has it been since you lived in DC? Things have changed so much! I'll help you out with a timeline:
Black perception of generally safe neighborhoods they would want to live in:
Year 2000-2005
-Anywhere west of 16th Street NW
Year 2005-2010
-Anywhere west of North Capitol Street NW
Year 2010-2015
-Anywhere west of the Anacostia River
Year 2015-2020
-Anywhere west of Eastern Avenue NE and Southern Avenue SE
You left DC when the only places black people spoke about in regards to nice neighborhoods to live in or buy in stopped at North Capitol Street to the east and the National Mall to the south. Things had just started to spread towards the Anacostia River banks when you left, but it was a risk at that time.
NOMA, Union Market, Ivy City, Rhode Island Avenue/Edgewood, H Street, Hill East, Brookland, Navy Yard/Capital Riverfront, Buzzard Point, and The Wharf/Waterfront Station weren't even a thing when you left DC. Now, those areas are super expensive and considered gentrified.
The biggest thing you have missed since you left is the professional black population's return to the city and ideological/philosophical change to what it means to live in DC versus the suburbs. For other people reading this that may not know, DC historically had a reputation of mismanagement and poverty and not many black people wanted to live in the city by choice unlike NYC. It used to be the "come up" to move to Maryland from the 1980's-2005. Around 2006, things really started to change in DC and only the wealthy could afford to move into the new booming neighborhoods of U Street and 14th Street etc. which historically post 1960's was a drug strip full of prostitution and homeless people with boarded up businesses.
That progression marched it's way east every year and in the last 5-years now encompasses all of DC and all 8 wards. Now, people in PG would love to live in DC, but many can't afford it so they have to settle for the suburbs. The young people part to this equation is that many young black professionals would love to live in Ward 7 and Ward 8 to rent, but all the new construction till the last year has been tax credit income restricted buildings. That is now about to change. I think you will see the young black professionals join the older black professionals in the Ward 7 and Ward 8 neighborhoods because the rents will be comparable to new places in Largo and Camp Springs/Branch Avenue where they currently congregate.
The Anacostia River acts as a natural barrier for spill over gentrification which will keep Ward 7 and Ward 8 black since the actual land mass is shared with Prince George's County and not DC. Ward 7 and Ward 8 will act as a natural downtown for Prince George's county without any need to cross a river.
I agree that the urban core of DC will look like Manhattan soon. Extremely built-up with high-rises everywhere, extremely high density with some census tracts reaching 120k-130k people per square mile according to some calculation, and extremely white by population. I think that's inevitable which is true for every urban core in America seeing development.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 05-21-2020 at 10:17 AM..
Two notes: the DC black professional is much more likely to move to PG than Moco. PG has been the biggest benefactor of DC's black population out migration.
Black people leaving DC are more likely to move to PG County. It's not clear that this is true for college-educated Black people.
PG County still probably receives the largest share of Black professionals of any county, as it receives more in-migration from DC than any other county in the DMV, but if we could control for education, I bet the distribution would looksa lot more equitable than it does for Black out-migration overall. Howard County has become a popular destination (at least among people I know) for educated Black people, and there are still quite a few who end up in MoCo and NOVA for the schools. TBH I would not live in PG unless we had some assurance that our kids would go to Eleanor Roosevelt.
MDAllStar, isn’t anywhere west of Eastern Ave and Southern Ave...all of DC?
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