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Yes, I thought of those too, but I figured the OP didn't mean single family home style neighborhoods with town center type developments mixed in when he/she said urban.
And this is exactly why I didn't mention any particular neighborhoods, as you always minimize everything in Atlanta as not being urban by your standards.
The truth is you won't find any single family homes with 'town center type developments' in Downtown or Castlberry Hill, but none of the areas mentioned meet your 100% black standard either. They are all integrated.
Keep in mind the OP is from Atlanta so he already knows how the city is built and which neighborhoods are the most urban in the city. SFH neighborhoods in the core of the city aren't going anywhere but there's been a ton of multifamily going up on vacant parcels. West Midtown is somewhat comparable to Navy Yard in that both districts, although oriented differently, are largely new with some redeveloped properties acting as anchors.
Correct, the OP didn't give a criteria and I was trying to avoid the comparison trying to rank urbanity because we both know when people think of urban neighborhoods in DC, they are talking about the highest level urban neighborhoods (Penn Quarter, Foggy Bottom, NOMA, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Navy Yard, etc.) which is a very intense level of urbanity or neighborhood style urbanity (Logan Circle, Dupont Circle, Shaw, U Street, H Street, Columbia Heights, etc.) which is not downtown level urban but is the highest level of neighborhood style urban intensity.
I personally believe urban has levels as you know and that is the conversation I have been having with other people in regards to Ward 7 and Ward 8 which are very similar to urban core Atlanta neighborhoods. I obviously think Ward 7 and Ward 8 neighborhoods are still urban, just not at the level of urban core DC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I've actually renting short-term in Ward 7 since my return and this summer I hope to find something long term in this area. It's definitely up-and-coming and I generally like it. There are definitely Black professionals purchasing in this ward though, including a couple of people I know personally.
You bring up a good point about who's living in the new residential developments in Atlanta. Back in 2018 when I left the DMV for my hometown in SC, I also spent several weeks in Atlanta and while there, I stayed with a good friend who rents a condo downtown in a midrise residential building next to Centennial Park which was pretty cool. I've known others who have lived in older and newer rental units in downtown, Midtown, Atlantic Station, the stretch of Peachtree connecting Midtown, Buckhead, Lindbergh, etc. My experiences have been that peers/friends who live in multifamily buildings in the core or even the suburbs aren't in the brand spanking new developments but the ones that are like 10-20 years old or so. A frat brother I know owns a unit downtown one of the historic buildings; he moved back to his hometown of LA several years ago but he offered the unit for me to rent if I ever landed a new job in Atlanta and needed a place to stay. So yeah I believe there's a fair amount of us living in the newer rental units in Atlanta albeit not the very newest ones.
There are a lot of black professionals currently living in Ward 7 and Ward 8 in older housing stock too so you're correct. I think that is true for black neighborhoods in every city because many black professionals have a desire to live around other black professionals in an urban environment inside city limits even if there aren't shiny new buildings to live in. I haven't been talking about home ownership because that isn't what the OP is looking for. Obviously black people are buying homes in Ward 7 and Ward 8 in droves. For DC, I think the river acts as a barrier between the rest of DC. New developments moving through entitlements or under construction like Northeast Heights, Parkside, Skyland, and Penn Branch in Ward 7 or Historic Anacostia, Poplar Point, and St. Elizabeth for Ward 8 have the potential to be the economic and entertainment anchors for Black DC in the future. With Prince George's county surrounding Ward 7 and Ward 8, these developments are positioned to be the new retail/entertainment anchors for the black community.
I think it's inevitable that the urban core of DC will become just like Manhattan in that the whole area will be gentrified and black establishments will be priced out. That is the case for most cities as they build out in America sadly. Without a barrier like a river or major park etc. to separate currently black neighborhoods from the economic development crawl which spills over walkable neighborhood to walkable neighborhood, it's just a matter of time sadly. The Anacostia River acts as that barrier. Now that retail is coming and all types of new housing is coming from multi-family to single family homes in Ward 7 and Ward 8, that area of the city is becoming a destination for black people who have a desire to live in DC.
Would you say the neighborhoods in Atlanta like Sweet Auburn/Old Fourth Ward, Edgewood, Kirkwood, etc. are maintaining the same level of black enterprise, culture, and population or are they beginning to lose it? If they are losing it, which areas in the city of Atlanta seeing development do you think are safe from losing its black majority, enterprise, and culture? What are the up and coming neighborhoods where black people are flocking?
I think it's so important for cities like DC, ATL, and NYC that have neighborhoods like Harlem, U Street, and Sweet Auburn that are going through displacement of their black culture that those black business owners find other places in the city to thrive. The Harlem Renaissance in NYC and Black Broadway in DC happened because of segregation, however, our communities thrived during that time. I think the spirit behind what made those neighborhoods during that era is what is missing today. This is why we have the level of poverty in the black community now. Black communities were thriving when black people could only support black businesses. When integration happened, the support for black business went out the door. We have to support our own in our neighborhoods if we want those businesses to survive. Bus Boys and Poets in Anacostia is a perfect example. I'm always telling my friends don't drive past the location in Historic Anacostia to go to the downtown or 14th street location. That's the problem.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 05-09-2020 at 02:02 PM..
And this is exactly why I didn't mention any particular neighborhoods, as you always minimize everything in Atlanta as not being urban by your standards.
The truth is you won't find any single family homes with 'town center type developments' in Downtown or Castlberry Hill, but none of the areas mentioned meet your 100% black standard either. They are all integrated.
Just so I'm clear, you're responding to this quote below right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar
Yes, I thought of those too, but I figured the OP didn't mean single family home style neighborhoods with town center type developments mixed in when he/she said urban. The OP asked for a comparison so I assume he/she would like to know about similarities. I would say Old Fourth Ward, Edgewood, and Kirkwood are most similar to neighborhoods on the outskirts of DC proper where single family homes do exist mixed in with rowhouses and apartments. The aforementioned neighborhoods in Atlanta and the neighborhoods on the outskirts of DC proper aren't urban compared to the urban core of DC, however, if they meet the OP's standards for urban, they qualify.
If so, why did you cut the quote off and strategically not mention the actual neighborhoods I was talking about? I didn't even mention downtown or Castleberry Hill. What are you referring to?
Also, I was making a comparison to similarly built neighborhoods in DC located in Ward 7 and Ward 8 that may not be as urban as urban core DC, but are still urban and happen to have a population that is almost entirely black still. I have been discussing these same neighborhoods in the Capital of Black America thread.
As far as the level of urbanity goes, I'm perfectly fine with neighborhoods like this if they are close to transit and retail. That's one of the most important factors as I don't want to be tied to a car to do everything. I'm used to Atlanta levels of density so neighborhoods like Shaw would be a new experience for me though I love the feel of the area that I get through streetview. Ward 7 reminds me of places I'm familiar with like East Point and College Park in Atlanta.
Edit: Also not opposed to a neighborhood without black majorities as long as we're a significant amount of the population there. I just don't want to have to travel far to get a haircut, eat ethnic foods, and attend black events. I also like to see people that look like me. In Atlanta, I don't feel like a minority and I was afraid that the neighborhoods in DC I would be interested in wouldn't feel the same due to the cost of living and PG County being mentioned over the city for black living.
Correct, the OP didn't give a criteria and I was trying to avoid the comparison trying to rank urbanity because we both know when people think of urban neighborhoods in DC, they are talking about the highest level urban neighborhoods (Penn Quarter, Foggy Bottom, NOMA, Mt. Vernon Triangle, Navy Yard, etc.) which is a very intense level of urbanity or neighborhood style urbanity (Logan Circle, Dupont Circle, Shaw, U Street, H Street, Columbia Heights, etc.) which is not downtown level urban but is the highest level of neighborhood style urban intensity.
I'm more used to the second set of neighborhoods. Columbia Height and Shaw from what pictures I've seen are perfect, just not sure of the level of income I'd need to stay there.
I think there’s a misconception in America at large that inner city black areas are uniformly of the Lowe classes. In most inner city black neighborhoods throughout the country there is a substantial black middle class and contingent of black owner amidst all the confusion. And they largely live comfortable lives but they have connection to their neighborhood and as well as many connections to black professionals elsewhere in the metro. The same applies to DC.
As far as the level of urbanity goes, I'm perfectly fine with neighborhoods like this if they are close to transit and retail. That's one of the most important factors as I don't want to be tied to a car to do everything. I'm used to Atlanta levels of density so neighborhoods like Shaw would be a new experience for me though I love the feel of the area that I get through streetview. Ward 7 reminds me of places I'm familiar with like East Point and College Park in Atlanta.
Edit: Also not opposed to a neighborhood without black majorities as long as we're a significant amount of the population there. I just don't want to have to travel far to get a haircut, eat ethnic foods, and attend black events. I also like to see people that look like me. In Atlanta, I don't feel like a minority and I was afraid that the neighborhoods in DC I would be interested in wouldn't feel the same due to the cost of living and PG County being mentioned over the city for black living.
What year are you planning to move here? The area you posted above is the intersection of four neighborhoods Benning, River Terrace, Parkside, and Deanwood. This area is known as Downtown Ward 7 anchored by Minnesota Avenue metro station. It's currently the site of the largest redevelopment plan in the entire city. This area will most likely always be black for the foreseeable future even after redevelopment. This is the area where most young black professionals are moving because it's still affordable to buy houses and condos compared to the rest of the city.
Parkside is on the northside of Minnesota Avenue metro station and Northeast Heights will replace East River Shopping Center which is visible from the street view you posted above. In fact, the view you posted above with the 1-story retail directly in front of you on that street view will soon look like this. I have posted the developments within walking distance of the street view you posted below:
Benning Market Food Hall will be the first new food hall for black owned vendors and small businesses in DC.
"The market is expected to have up to 10 vendors, including restaurants, along with a central bar and community seating. While not all tenants have been identified, offerings are expected to include home goods and other essentials in addition to food and beverage services."
"Anchor tenant Market 7 will operate the lower level of the space, including administering the grocery store; the organization has hosted pop-ups in Ward 7 over the past two years with over 60 vendors. It is a community-based startup founded by Ward 7 resident Mary Blackford to unite and champion local and Black businesses."
Last edited by MDAllstar; 05-10-2020 at 10:38 AM..
I think there’s a misconception in America at large that inner city black areas are uniformly of the Lowe classes. In most inner city black neighborhoods throughout the country there is a substantial black middle class and contingent of black owner amidst all the confusion. And they largely live comfortable lives but they have connection to their neighborhood and as well as many connections to black professionals elsewhere in the metro. The same applies to DC.
I think the look and feel of the black neighborhoods play a major role in that perception. Unfortunately, a lot of black areas need major infrastructure work to make the streets and sidewalks look as nice as the other wealthy areas of a city. The key is, once the infrastructure comes, the population and culture needs to remain. This can only be accomplished with increased density. Build enough housing so people aren't pushed out. Build enough housing options so everyone can stay and others can move in. Build affordable housing and market rate housing so everyone can live next to each other.
That's actually what has happened in Ward 7 and Ward 8 in DC. There is a lot of brand new affordable housing and developers are now starting to build market rate housing with no income restrictions.
There are major infrastructure upgrades happening in Ward 7 that will make that area unrecognizable. The city is getting that area ready for the transformation happening:
Minnesota Avenue has been completely redone along with the street trees and tree boxes. It looks like a completely different street. Downtown Ward 7 Great Streets Project
These types of infrastructure upgrades go a long way in the perception of a neighborhood. Perception is one of the biggest problems in the black community.
Does Atlanta have a black urban neighborhood? Midtown isn’t really black. Which urban neighborhoods are black in Atlanta? From my experience going to school in the south and visiting friends and family in Atlanta all the time, I don’t know of any black urban neighborhoods.
I was going to ask the same question of DC. Blacks are a minority in nearly all core, walkable neighborhoods now or close to it.
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