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Right, those are very urban and dense neighborhoods, though those also aren't that far out from downtown Boston. Central Hollywood is about 5 to 6 miles outside of downtown LA.
1. NYC
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2. Chicago
3. San Francisco
4. Philadelphia
5. LA
6. Boston
7. DC
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8. Seattle
9. Baltimore
10. Miami
I get LA is kind of a wildcard that is hard to rank? But what is the basis for putting it above Boston, but below Philly. Philly has a little bigger core than Boston. But, it seems like you have the same basic issue. A big mixed use core that sees it density fades the further you get from the core. The Hollywood issue would also seem to apply to Philly. That far from center city you would be in dense, but relatively quiet residential areas.
I get LA is kind of a wildcard that is hard to rank? But what is the basis for putting it above Boston, but below Philly. Philly has a little bigger core than Boston. But, it seems like you have the same basic issue. A big mixed use core that sees it density fades the further you get from the core. The Hollywood issue would also seem to apply to Philly. That far from center city you would be in dense, but relatively quiet residential areas.
Philadelphia keeps a dense rowhouse form for a very large area (rowhouse or denser/taller for 50 contiguous square miles definitely) and so keeps its population density and the businesses to serve that density for a large spread.
You can see how this works out on nephi's graph which was done for metropolitan area by census tract densities where Philadelphia and San Francisco both keep consistently well ahead of Boston for number of people living above a certain population density. Philadelphia is also pretty strong in its core contiguous blocks whereas the SF block, and even more so LA, likely include parts of the metropolitan area that would be pretty far out from the contiguous 50 square miles (for SF, that would be parts of East Bay; for LA, it'd be in multiple directions outside of Central LA). For the cities listed in the graph save for maybe Seattle, it's likely in the 500k to 1 million population range where all of these cities are hitting the 50 contiguous (non-grossly gerrymandered) square miles.
I'm less sure about further out nodes for the Greater Boston area, because I honestly haven't spent any time in say Malden or Quincy or such so I don't know how dense those cores further out are, but I'm assuming Boston also has its densest tracts overwhelmingly clustered around greater downtown Boston / Cambridge / Somerville and feathering down from that rather than substantial spikes in remote nodes, but even with that somewhat similar attribute to Philadelphia, the larger view of it puts it so that Philadelphia has a pretty pronounced greater number of people living in higher densities.
It is difficult to place LA though, but that's my attempt at it. By density, it's possible to put it right around Chicago for 50 square miles. It's also possible to put it below DC for 50 square miles. There are a lot of factors to weigh and LA's strong points are its sizable secondary nodes that are still arguably within a reasonably contiguous 50 square miles and its very high population density. On the other hand, you can argue that its comparatively more car-oriented built form and disjointedness between main nodes outside of key corridors connecting such as well as a weak-for-its-size primary node should bring it further down.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-08-2020 at 03:59 PM..
You can see how this works out on nephi's graph which was done for metropolitan area by census tract densities where Philadelphia and San Francisco both keep consistently well ahead of Boston for number of people living above a certain population density. Philadelphia is also pretty strong in its core contiguous blocks whereas the SF block, and even more so LA, likely include parts of the metropolitan area that would be pretty far out from the contiguous 50 square miles (for SF, that would be parts of East Bay; for LA, it'd be in multiple directions outside of Central LA)
It is difficult to place LA though, but that's my attempt at it. By density, it's possible to put it right around Chicago for 50 square miles. It's also possible to put it below DC for 50 square miles. There's a lot of factors to weight and LA's strong points are its large nodes that are still arguably within contiguous 50 square miles and its very high population density. On the other hand, you can argue that its comparatively more car-oriented built form and disjointedness between main nodes outside of key corridors connecting such as well as a weak-for-its-size primary node should bring it further down.
I keep hearing the word disjointedness about LA. How and why when describing LA within these boundaries? It's pretty dense. You could walk, Uber, catch a bus, ride the subway or lightlrail within this area. It has highrises, midrises, lowrise apts. Within the 50 square miles are the different nodes seperated by forest, lakes? Is it a long distance between the nodes or neighborhoods? Not at all. 960,000 within these boundaries is alot of people. I live within these boundaries and after living in different cities I don't find myself driving anymore than other cities I've lived in. So I think this car centric thing within the 50 square miles is not so LA, at least within these 50 square miles.
Most of the edge cities of Boston are similarly as dense as Boston 12kppsqmi+ Quincy technically isn’t but half of Quincy is a state park. It has a ton of DC style high rise apartments built in the -980s, multiple train stops, bus secure and 95k people in about 8 square miles of land
Built Malden Everett Somerville Cambridge Chelsea are all 12-20kppsqmi. Revere Medford and Lynn are all 7.5-9kppsqmi
Combined that about 600,000 additional people (including Quincy) at about 10kppsqmi. Boston’s 700k at 14ppsqmi . That 1.3 million people live in essentially the same density as Philly. And no there are no land gaps-all those areas touch one another.
Almost certainly is an urban area / MSA / CSA / some kind of metropolitan area graph because the population counts on the y axis are greater than that of the city proper populations for most of the entries.
Interesting. Wish we knew more about the data and how it was compiled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
Philadelphia keeps a dense rowhouse form for a very large area (rowhouse or denser/taller for 50 contiguous square miles definitely) and so keeps its population density and the businesses to serve that density for a large spread.
You can see how this works out on nephi's graph which was done for metropolitan area by census tract densities where Philadelphia and San Francisco both keep consistently well ahead of Boston for number of people living above a certain population density.
Using that graph, Boston does pass Philly at around 125k people. I’m not sure where the line falls exactly, but 50 square miles is pretty small on the scale of UA/MSA/CSA.
Most of the edge cities of Boston are similarly as dense as Boston 12kppsqmi+ Quincy technically isn’t but half of Quincy is a state park. It has a ton of DC style high rise apartments built in the -980s, multiple train stops, bus secure and 95k people in about 8 square miles of land
Built Malden Everett Somerville Cambridge Chelsea are all 12-20kppsqmi. Revere Medford and Lynn are all 7.5-9kppsqmi
Combined that about 600,000 additional people (including Quincy) at about 10kppsqmi. Boston’s 700k at 14ppsqmi . That 1.3 million people live in essentially the same density as Philly. And no there are no land gaps-all those areas touch one another.
This. Boston’s northern suburbs maintain high density beyond Cambridge and Somerville and would have population very comparable to philly with similar land area...Boston densities drop west past newton
2010?! No wonder Seattle was so low. It would be lower than that group...but 25% higher today based on WA State estimates. Since most growth is in the existing denser tracts, the top end would be disproportately affected.
4) Boston (pop 713,858 & zip 02116)
5) Philadelphia (pop 680,939 & zip 19123)
6) San Francisco (pop 658,482 & zip 94102)
7) Washington, DC (pop 551,330 & zip 20005)
8) Baltimore (pop 405,989 & zip 21201)
9) Miami (pop 396,418 & zip 33128)
10) Minneapolis (pop 348,762 & zip 55402)
These are all based on 50-square-mile areas, right?
If so, then what's the ZIP code doing here? None of these areas would be contained entirely in one ZIP code.
The 50 square miles would encompass the entire city of San Francisco, for instance, with one square mile left over.
PHiladeelphia's densest 50 square miles would probably include the entire city between the rivers from Girard Avenue south to the rivers' confluence. It might include adjacent territory in West Philadephia as well. In toto, it would account for about 40 percent of the city's land area. And ZIP code 19103 is certainly denser than ZIP code 19123.
I'm not surprised. Sometimes LA can be depicted as the second 2nd most dense large city from a purely statistical standpoint. Its just that LA is not that dense in a traditional urban sense leading (due to LA autocentric and architectural attributes for example) to the overwhelming well reasonably supported subjective views of LA's lack of urbanity.
It depends on where you're at. The landscape changes every two miles or so. Some parts look suburban while other parts are jammed packed to the gills with bone crushing density.
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