Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Remember, in the 50 most urban contiguous square miles, Baltimore didn't just decrease in population (and likely did so in some of the most urban and densely populated of its 50 square miles rather than the less dense outer areas that would not count in the 50 square miles)--it also likely decreased in structural density especially if you're subtracting vacant properties that are dilapidated to the point where they are unlikely to be rehabilitated. It may have decreased in retail density .
It almost certainly did. As they are still rushing to demolish buildings in Baltimore to some success.
Pittsburgh is a great city Baltimore could learn from and I do feel its overall build is greater than Provodience but the city doesn't feel nearly as cohesive or as fully occupied as Providence which is just endless dense suburban development for 50 square miles. narrow streets and just walkable for the entirety of it but not very impressive to the eye. Baltimore is still more structurally dense than both, and just larger physically. Its tough between these 3. But Baltimore is clearly a much larger city than Providence.
Remember, in the 50 most urban contiguous square miles, Baltimore didn't just decrease in population--it also likely decreased in structural density especially if you're subtracting vacant properties that are dilapidated to the point where they are unlikely to be rehabilitated. It may have decreased in retail density and even job density. Meanwhile, Pittsburgh held steady in population and likely increased in structural density and Providence likely increased in both.[/b]
Baltimore is increasing in structural density because it's been at net positive housing occupancy before the 2020 census. It's been adding more units than buildings are becoming vacant/bulldozed per year for the greater part of the 7-8 years, they are just concentrated in small geographic areas.
The reason the population keeps sliding is due to reduction in average household size. The people occupying all these new apartments popping up left and right are single nesters and not families. If the city wants to grow it's population, it needs to increase household size by attracting and retaining families.
If you understand the why behind it's population loss, the what and the how always fall into place.
4 mile radius is exactly 50.27 sq/mi and it gave me population of 450k. (avoided as much water as possible at the expense of sacrificing some of the densest city neighborhoods)
If you where to calculate it using just census tracts instead of circumference to equal 50 sq/mi, yes, you'd be right around 500k with 2020 census numbers.
Baltimore is increasing in structural density because it's been at net positive housing occupancy before the 2020 census. It's been adding more units than buildings are becoming vacant/bulldozed per year for the greater part of the 7-8 years, they are just concentrated in small geographic areas.
The reason the population keeps sliding is due to reduction in average household size. The people occupying all these new apartments popping up left and right are single nesters and not families. If the city wants to grow it's population, it needs to increase household size by attracting and retaining families.
If you understand the why behind it's population loss, the what and the how always fall into place.
Is it an actual add of buildings like +net buildings or just housing units? Big difference there. Baltimore is knocking down 1000+ houses per year. i dont think its building 1000+ buildings per year. You can easily put 1000 units (equivalent of 100 rowhomes) in 3 buildings.
I see buildings on the east side and west side being bulldozed all the time (even a few in old china town). I don't see a ton of new buildings apart from two new skyscraper downtown and a few recent completions in the Fells/Harbor East area.
EDIT:
Actually there's new construction townhomes along S Haven Street.
Is it an actual add of buildings like +net buildings or just housing units? Big difference there. Baltimore is knocking down 1000+ houses per year. i dont think its building 1000+ buildings per year. You can easily put 1000 units (equivalent of 100 rowhomes) in 3 buildings.
Not an add to overall net # buildings but an add to total land area developed. Individual building footprint matters more than net # buildings.
Baltimore's average household size is 2.32 so you're looking at 2.3k people per 1000 rowhomes. Baltimore rowhome density peaks @58 units per acre. 1000/58 = 17.24 acres of added vacant land per year (city wide) due to rowhome demolition. There is way more than 17 acres worth of development in the city during any given year.
Now offsetting vaccines is an entirely different story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
I see buildings on the east side and west side being bulldozed all the time (even a few in old china town). I don't see a ton of new buildings apart from two new skyscraper downtown and a few recent completions in the Fells/Harbor East area.
EDIT:
Actually there's new construction townhomes along S Haven Street.
Off the top of my head the most prominent residential sites U/C or have site prep work going on as of Jun 14th.
Allied Harbor Point - 500 units (two buildings)
2001 Aliceanna St. - 23 townhomes
1301 E. Fort Ave - 112 townhomes
1900 South Charles St. - 258 units
Locke Landing - 458 units (two buildings) + 389 townhomes
Woodland Gardens I and II - 147 units (two buildings)
Uplands Phase II - 158 units (mix or apartment and townhomes)
Perkins Homes Phase 1 - 89 units + 14 townhomes
Perkins Homes Phase 2 - 128 units (two buildings) + 28 townhomes
The Ella at Somerset - 197 units
The Ruby at Somerset - 72 units
1400 Aliceanna St - 272 units (two buildings)
Lofts at Yard 56 - 225 units
So a shade over 3k (I know I'm forgetting some)
Theres wayyy more physical development if you included office/medical/conversions/schools, etc..
Can’t count Perkins, those were already buildings and only vacant for like 4 months. Apart form the uplands (decades in the pipeline) there’s an extreme concentration in one area and I’m not really convinced it’s way more than 17 acres - per year.
[quote=BostonBornMassMade;65420225]Can’t count Perkins, those were already buildings and only vacant for like 4 months. Apart from the uplands (decades in the pipeline) there’s an extreme concentration in one area.
Residents where moving out as early as 2019... What difference does it make if they were vacant 4 days, 4 months or 4 years? They're being replaced with denser development to the tune of +1k additional units being added.
Uplands already broke ground on the first apartment buildings and grading the entire 16-acre site has started.
Regarding concentration in one area, no one is denying that the affluent parts of the city are getting the lions share of development. The city is structurally densifying at the expense of other areas. Still there is city wide investment.
- There's a 147 unit apartment building for Morgan State students being built off of Hartford Rd. in Lauraville
- There's two apartment buildings finishing up of Browning Hwy by the port.
- There are 3 apartments breaking ground across from each other in Park Heights Ave. adjacent to Woodland Gardens II.
- Morgan State, Hopkins, UMD/Bio Park all have major ongoing construction projects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
I’m not really convinced it’s way more than 17 acres - per year.
Phase 1B of Port Covington was 25 acres and broke ground 3rd quarter of 2020. Baltimore could have built literally nothing for a solid year and it still would have been net positive mid way through 2021 in new developed land.
17 acres isn't anything special by major city standards when your average city block is larger then 1 acre from the get go.
Which would still leave Pittsburgh ~70k shy of Baltimore (with zero land adjustments).
You can carve up any city to increase density by removing land that can't be developed or isn't zoned for residential. If you were to remove just Helen Delich Bentley Port/Hawkins Point (all of which are contiguous) and substituted them for Dundalk or Towson, Baltimore would have +630k in a shade over 80 sq/mi.
The topic of this thread is "Top 10 most urban contiguous 50 square miles. It says nothing about needing to include the exact city municipal boundaries in the urban area, especially if they aren't even contiguous or connected with the rest of the dense urban core itself.
I’m just not counting a place where there are still buildings standing and people were living there until like 2021 and if I wanted to get nitpicky the uplands is just infill of an area that had houses on it (and by the looks of it it was structurally more dense) until 2010. So if we’re comparing from 2010…. Both of those would equate to treading water.same with murder mall redevelopment.
Everything else, I definitely understand.
As for the other projects like UMD BioPark and Morgan state that counts not housing but it counts. Coming from a city with a real boon is investment Baltimroe feels noticeably more stagnant as I watch houses and stores around my area slowly get boarded up or gradually getting razed.
The only building I haven’t seen that you mentioned is on Broening Highway.
But I suspect there used to be more houses at Broening along Gusryan Street- would I be right?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
