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(snippage)
It’s definitely one of the only cities where you never hear black kids really feel discouraged from “sounding white”…even in the worst Boston neighborhoods people give you a real level of respect for simply attending a good school-let alone when they find out you’re a good student. I’ve never heard stories of that in Boston but hear it from well educated blacks in just about every other city.
The funny thing is, I got ritually shamed in the Currier House dining hall at Harvard freshman year (1976) by a bunch of Black students who perceived me as "too white." But I'll wager they didn't grow up in Boston. (I did have a next-door neighbor, a Black guy from Brooklyn, who helped me get my head screwed back on straight.)
But I do think that Boston's overall appreciation of intellectualism does work to the advantage of Black kids there who are similarly inclined. That is one of the things I miss about the city some 40 years since I last lived in it.
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Boston has programs like SteppingStone (www.tsf.org) which exist to prepare Boston’s balck children to attend private schools and suburban high schools both academically and socially. Many kids I knew in inner city Boston and even teachers I had in school were SteppingStone Alumni- it’s one of those things everyone knows. Add to that to the METCO program and the abundance of private schools within ~10 miles of Boston black community and it’s just an educated air. In addition to this nowadays blacks people are running for and wining notable public office and positions and they’re also being appointed and hired into pretty high places. Eastern Bank, Boston Childress, Greater Boston Chamber of Commerce, presidents of Simmons College/Bentley University/Emerson College/Cambridge College, Supreme Judicial Court Chief Justice, Governor etc etc It’s certainly a bad place for a black American blue collar worker though. Very little of that exist outside of car mechanics in the hood. Hundred of thousands of Black Americans choose the Boston Area for a reason.
Conservatives love to tweak liberals for talking a good game when it comes to integration but not then putting their money (or themselves) where their mouth is. (So do some on the Left, for that matter.) But what's been happening in places like Framingham (which, admittedly, isn't as high up the status ladder as some Boston suburbs but is a decent place nonetheless) suggests that there are now white liberals who are willing to walk the talk.
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Do any black people complain about crime, blight, lack of jobs, lack of educational opportunities, neighborhood environment in Boston? I always come down to being the ‘only one’, weather and expense. But if expense isn’t an issue and you take the initiative tomorrow find and ingratiate yourself in the black community, you shouldn’t feel like the only one. Weather you just gotta get used to-summers are great.
Well, Boston is an expensive place to live in, mainly because of high housing costs. CoL, especially CoH, is Philadelphia's ace in the hole, and of late, people here are pulling out their worry beads because this advantage may be eroding. I don't know the degree to which New York professionals who now find themselves untethered from the office are responsible for this, but I hope to get a bead on this for an article I'm writing for the May issue of PhillyMag. (Boston, btw, is published by the same company, headquartered here in Philadelphia.)
The funny thing is, I got ritually shamed in the Currier House dining hall at Harvard freshman year (1976) by a bunch of Black students who perceived me as "too white." But I'll wager they didn't grow up in Boston. (I did have a next-door neighbor, a Black guy from Brooklyn, who helped me get my head screwed back on straight.)
But I do think that Boston's overall appreciation of intellectualism does work to the advantage of Black kids there who are similarly inclined. That is one of the things I miss about the city some 40 years since I last lived in it.
Conservatives love to tweak liberals for talking a good game when it comes to integration but not then putting their money (or themselves) where their mouth is. (So do some on the Left, for that matter.) But what's been happening in places like Framingham (which, admittedly, isn't as high up the status ladder as some Boston suburbs but is a decent place nonetheless) suggests that there are now white liberals who are willing to walk the talk.
Well, Boston is an expensive place to live in, mainly because of high housing costs. CoL, especially CoH, is Philadelphia's ace in the hole, and of late, people here are pulling out their worry beads because this advantage may be eroding. I don't know the degree to which New York professionals who now find themselves untethered from the office are responsible for this, but I hope to get a bead on this for an article I'm writing for the May issue of PhillyMag. (Boston, btw, is published by the same company, headquartered here in Philadelphia.)
Boston certainly isn’t perfect and whites people here are more culturally dominant, aloof and oblivious than NYC and Philly. The uplift of the white culture and relatively obscurity of the black culture isn’t great. But policing is nicer and much more mild, more access to nature and slower pace, and jobs are there. It’s trade offs..
Boston IS expensive but you can find a decent spot in the metro for under 400k. If we’re talking middle class you need to be middle class where you live. So if that’s Boston…it’s Boston Middle Class.
But I mean you can make 40k a year an individual with no high school diploma just working by retail at 1/hr. Really it’s not hard for a 2 income black household to hit 100k and be middle class. Trust me when I say an entry level non profit job will give a fresh grad 50k just off the strength lol. If you’re a middle class professional with a family you’ll be aight if youre willing to have a more modest home. But there’s no denying it’s expensive.
With hiring at my job… the difficult part about our black talent pool is that they can work in DC NYC LA PHI if they want to, so you have to offer more $$ to get them to Boston. Most companies in Boston want more black talent and will hire you in a minute but because the high skill level required to make a move to a high end market like Boston- we are competing for black folks who have the choice to live anywhere they’d like because they are so in demand. The other branch is chain immigration and you always have some people moving from smaller areas of the interior northeast into Boston for opportunity. I’d imagine we receive more NYCers Than the other way around just due to numbers.
Boston certainly isn’t perfect and whites people here are more culturally dominant, aloof and oblivious than NYC and Philly. The uplift of the white culture and relatively obscurity of the black culture isn’t great. But policing is nicer and much more mild, more access to nature and slower pace, and jobs are there. It’s trade offs..
Boston IS expensive but you can find a decent spot in the metro for under 400k. If we’re talking middle class you need to be middle class where you live. So if that’s Boston…it’s Boston Middle Class.
But I mean you can make 40k a year an individual with no high school diploma just working by retail at 1/hr. Really it’s not hard for a 2 income black household to hit 100k and be middle class. Trust me when I say an entry level non profit job will give a fresh grad 50k just off the strength lol. If you’re a middle class professional with a family you’ll be aight if youre willing to have a more modest home. But there’s no denying it’s expensive.
With hiring at my job… the difficult part about our black talent pool is that they can work in DC NYC LA PHI if they want to, so you have to offer more $$ to get them to Boston. Most companies in Boston want more black talent and will hire you in a minute but because the high skill level required to make a move to a high end market like Boston- we are competing for black folks who have the choice to live anywhere they’d like because they are so in demand. The other branch is chain immigration and you always have some people moving from smaller areas of the interior northeast into Boston for opportunity. I’d imagine we receive more NYCers Than the other way around just due to numbers.
The bolded is true, as Boston is one of the places that some from Upstate NY go to. Ironically, some from Boston come here. A couple of examples that come to mind: https://www.localsyr.com/iris-st-meran/
Just to add to the Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown metro information, for the Orange County(Middletown, Newburgh, etc.)black median household income is $68,242: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table...ST5Y2019.S1903
After looking at the Brookings article a few posts above, what is also interesting with this metro is that its black-white median household income gap would be lower than any of the areas listed in the article, while having a higher black median household income than all of the areas except for DC according to 2018 information.
According to 2018 census information, the black median household income for Orange County was $65,093(it was $79,372 for white households, $80,826 for non Hispanic white households). For Dutchess County, the black median household income was $53,901(it was $82,207 for white households, $84,517 for those that are non Hispanic). So, this is a metro that had about a $59,500-60,000 or so black median household income at that time(maybe more like 60 or slightly higher due to Orange County having more black residents in the metro and having a higher black median household income).
This makes sense, as this metro in the early part of the last decade had one of, if not THE smallest black-white per capita income gap out of the top 100 most populated metros in the United States. This was according to articles in the National Business Journals by G. Scott Thomas, where he did a couple of article on the topic. Ironically, it was apart of the NYC metro during the time period used in the Brookings article, which means that it also has enough of a proximity to employment in that metro to where the commuting interchange can at times make it apart of that metro area, in which there is commuter rail infrastructure that is available.
So, this may be the most underrated metro in the country for black people in this regard, given this information. Let alone just the Northeast.
When it comes to the historical growth and development patterns of its Black population, DC has at least as much in common with Southern cities. While DC was a huge magnet city for Blacks during the Great Migration like actual Northeastern (and Midwestern) cities, it was also like Southern cities back then in that it had a sizable Black population from the very beginning that consisted of both enslaved and free Blacks and also today by ranking highly as a city where Black Americans register high marks socioeconomically (which is mostly a thing of the past for Northern metros overall although this remains true at the municipal/zip code/Census tract level). Truthfully DC tracks closest to Atlanta within this broader demographic-specific context from the beginning of the 20th century until today than any other city.
Dc is interesting because of its location. It has the density and politics of a northeastern city, but also has the modern feel of a southern city.
Boston IS expensive but you can find a decent spot in the metro for under 400k. If we’re talking middle class you need to be middle class where you live. So if that’s Boston…it’s Boston Middle Class.
But I mean you can make 40k a year an individual with no high school diploma just working by retail at 1/hr. Really it’s not hard for a 2 income black household to hit 100k and be middle class. Trust me when I say an entry level non profit job will give a fresh grad 50k just off the strength lol. If you’re a middle class professional with a family you’ll be aight if youre willing to have a more modest home. But there’s no denying it’s expensive.
I might just give you that observation. And in that case, it also becomes a matter of self-selection after a fashion.
The median household income in Massachusetts (in 2019: $81,215) is higher than that of the city of Boston ($71,115), and both are a good bit above the MHI for Pennsylvania ($61,744) and Philadelphia ($45,927). Which suggests that the people moving to each state can already afford to buy a house in it.
But there are a lot of service and other frontline jobs that pay below that median. What was the hourly figure you had in mind for a $40k individual income? Full-time at $15/hour gets you $31,200/year, probably too little to afford any but the most rundown properties or houses in the lower-tier communities (Chelsea, Lynn, Brockton...). For $40k, you need to make $19.23/hr.
The problem with cities like San Francisco is that the teachers, librarians, waiters, sales clerks and the like who help those affluent middle-class folks live their lives can't afford to live anywhere near where they work. That's unbalanced, and I suspect that only the presence of those lower-tier cities close to the core of the metropolitan area keeps that from being the case in Boston too.
An entry-level job at a nonprofit pays $50k? Those must be some well-endowed nonprofits.
Wonder what a reporter for one of the non-metro dailies earns? One doesn't go into journalism for the big bucks (median salary for journalists nationwide is a little more than $37k).
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With hiring at my job… the difficult part about our black talent pool is that they can work in DC NYC LA PHI if they want to, so you have to offer more $$ to get them to Boston. Most companies in Boston want more black talent and will hire you in a minute but because the high skill level required to make a move to a high end market like Boston- we are competing for black folks who have the choice to live anywhere they’d like because they are so in demand. The other branch is chain immigration and you always have some people moving from smaller areas of the interior northeast into Boston for opportunity. I’d imagine we receive more NYCers Than the other way around just due to numbers.
Net domestic migration between New York and most other US cities/metros is towards the other city/metro. Suffolk County is not among the biggest net receivers from New York, according to this 2018 report; in fact, according to the report, it was a net sender of migrants to New York City. The Boston MSA was a net receiver of migrants from New York, but it didn't even make the top 20 in that category. The Philadelphia MSA ranked fourth among net receivers, behind Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Orlando and Bridgeport. In terms of total inflows to and outflows from Metro New York, Miami-Fort Lauderdale and Philadelphia rank 1-2. Boston ranks 8th.
Yea I had several teachers and other folks I knew from Buffalo, Waterbury, Albany, Outtafield etc.
I have the Boston City median Income at 79k for 2019 (1 year estimate) I’m confident it’s up closer to 84k or something now. But yes 19/hr is pretty standard for an entry level job in the metro. Less if it’s your first job/you’re a teenager/you’ve been fired. You can work at TJ Maxx, Trader Joe’s, a receptionist, or as a budtender and make that much. I know this for a fact.
And, yes, 50k is entry level at a non-profit in Boston- that’s a competing space there. I also know this for fact.
one receptionist and one cashier together is 80k. A teacher alone on average is 95k, a bus driver is 90-95k…
Dishwasher in Somerville at Nu Kitchen is $18-20/hr
Burrito roller at Anna’s taqueria is $18.50/hr
Concierge in Allston starts at $18/hr
Packaging job staring at $20-25/hr
Call center rep starting at $43,000 per year
$25/hr to work night shift at a warehouse
$17/hr for day shift at a ware house
Dunking Donuts crew member, Jamaica Plain $19/hr
Cannabis delivery driver $18-20/hr
Cafe Landover Server $21/hr
Trader Joe’s Crew Member Cambridge $16-20/hr
ALDi crew member $18/hr
Communications and fundraising assistant at Urban Edge Roxbury starts at 45-55k per year. Only requirement is ‘High School Diploma or GED + 1-3 years administrative or social media experience’…
Very very few jobs offering $15/hr or below lowest I’ve seen was 14.25 to work at a local sneaker store (Expressions).
Even Dorchester YMCA is offering Youth Leader jobs starting at $16.25/hr that’s for like 18 year olds.
Simply put if you have two people working jobs like this that’s 80,000 per year at 30% of your pretax income you can afford a 2,000/Mo apartment. That’s assuming you have no side hustle. It’s very doable without being more than 15 miles from Downtown Boston.
I went looking on Trulia for comparable apartments here, and you can actually find a few 2BR units in that rent range in Center City, though not in the newer buildings and conversions that have gone up in the last five to ten years.
But in outlying neighborhoods about as far from Center City as those are, the rents are a few hundred dollars less per month for a 2br.
I actually found a listing for a 1br two blocks from me in Germantown for $800/month. The property management company touts that the rent includes all utilities plus Wi-Fi, and the photos show a renovated apartment. I know this unit is in one of ten two-story rowhouses that these two entrepreneur types rehabbed about five years ago (here's the article I wrote about them); I guess they sold these units to another company, for the property manager is now a "co-living" company. Edited to add: "Co-living" is basically the rooming house rebranded and updated for our time.
An actual apartment would probably run more than that, but probably not more than $1,200/month up my way.
Your point about what constitutes a "middle class" income up that way definitely nolds.
I went looking on Trulia for comparable apartments here, and you can actually find a few 2BR units in that rent range in Center City, though not in the newer buildings and conversions that have gone up in the last five to ten years.
But in outlying neighborhoods about as far from Center City as those are, the rents are a few hundred dollars less per month for a 2br.
I actually found a listing for a 1br two blocks from me in Germantown for $800/month. The property management company touts that the rent includes all utilities plus Wi-Fi, and the photos show a renovated apartment. I know this unit is in one of ten two-story rowhouses that these two entrepreneur types rehabbed about five years ago (here's the article I wrote about them); I guess they sold these units to another company, for the property manager is now a "co-living" company. Edited to add: "Co-living" is basically the rooming house rebranded and updated for our time.
An actual apartment would probably run more than that, but probably not more than $1,200/month up my way.
Your point about what constitutes a "middle class" income up that way definitely nolds.
This isn’t really cotrelatedto what I said about people being able to afford Boston. I think I laid it out pretty extensively and plainly why that is. The jobs pay enough for people to live. That’s why Boston is often times not at the top of rent burdened cities. You don’t even need to be a amazing to live in Boston just half to work full time and find a decent paying gig. And have a roommate or significant other.
We know Philadelphia is cheaper and more affordable. But it’s also far dirtier, with lower wages, less greenery, more poverty, multitudes more crime, and lesser education and healthcare institutions, and more mundane natural scenery. And you know I love Philly. It’s still a relative bargain. However that 2BR in Milton does look mighty nice for a lower middle class black family maybe more so than living in Center City Phila..?
As for the idea of liviing Downtown Boston is not even a thought for regular people. A lot of those units are for Chinese investors, employer provided housing for execs (met a black man from Syracuse living in this building [ https://goo.gl/maps/g7HsQU5Zs21btmUSA ] courtesy of Simon properties), foreign students bankrolled by parents, the ultra rich, or just vacant. I don’t think black people have ever lived in Central Boston: at least not since the early 1900s (at the most recent). The best you could hope for there are some of the subsidized units (they exist).
Now if you want a 1BR in Boston? Good luck there’s been try very few of those and they’re almost all new construction and expensive. There are a few in Boston and surroundings for 1400-1500 but that’s it. It’s rough. There are plenty “co-living” situations all over though that’s for sure but even those are $900/mo. But for the 1M+ low/moderate income people in Greater Boston they find away and I don’t know that they’re QOL is lower than those in a Philly.
It’s buying a home in the Boston Area that recently has gotten sort of insane, it’s a bubble that has to burst. People aren’t even selling homes because they’re afraid they can’t afford a similar home in the area. Price flight is real and right now there’s barely any homes for sale up there. It’s dysfunctional ATP, there are homes to buy and homebuyers assistance programs so I’m it’s possible if you really are dedicated but it’s not a simple process or a sure thing at all. Rents seem to have been flat in areas of the city I look at. At least since like 2017/18.
The thing in Boston at least with rent is that prices flattening has occurred your gonna find the same 2000/ on2 Be in Roxbury, Newton, Quincy, Or Malden. The only real jumps in prices are downtown Boston and Cambridge/Somerville and maybe northern Brookline. The only real bargains are far out satellite cities north of Lynn, west of Framingham, or south of Brockton. The price drops a little in Salem/Lynn/Brockton (and Allston/Brighton) but nothing major until you hit Worcester, Lowell, and Taunton. All of which have sizable black communities. But definitely mostly non ADOS. Definitely.
I was listening to Spark FM a black radio station in Boston and they’re ere talking about how a lot of balck folks are moving to Newton because they can find more affordable available units there than in Mattapan….my research has consistently found that to be true. So if you can float it your basically swimming by in a pool of derivable locales y any national/crime/cleanliness standard. But the quality of the house itself may leave something to be desired. At the same time some of the units are well renovated and some of the units are well preserved. So you just have to be thorough.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 02-20-2022 at 11:17 AM..
As I reflect NYC drops further down my options due to increasing crime AND increasing home prices. Not to mention NYC has higher cost of goods and services than Boston and a much higher track burden.
Overall I’d pick somewhere in North Jersey, SWCT or eastern MA before NYC for any family. Maybe even Albany.
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