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We talk about housing expense- but remember you’ll pay much much more in tax in NJ or CT or NY than MA. Especially NJ and CT where you’ll pay 2x as much in taxes as you do in MA, every year. Forever. Over the course of a 30 year mortgage you’re looking at a 150k difference in tax over 30 years on a 450k home. Let alone after the life of the mortgage. So the cost differential in comparable towns but with the inflated MA price point is made up over the long term but not on the down payment.
Also at 5% flat income tax you will be taxed much less in Massachusetts than in New Jersey or New York and slightly less than Connecticut. New York City will have you with DOUBLE the income tax of Boston (with lower salaries on average).
I’d not be willing to shell out an extra 10k a year in property and income tax to live in NYC over Boston. And that before accounting for the tolls with longer commutes and higher cost of goods? Naw
Even if you rent at 80-90k your looking at a hidden $350/Mo fee in the form of income tax over Boston. That’s the hidden cost of NYC.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 03-07-2022 at 03:39 PM..
>> Especially NJ and CT where you’ll pay 2x as much in taxes as you do in MA, every year. Forever.
Source? This definitely varies by town in NJ and CT.
This is on average but the information is here. I cited it. IRL property tax in the NYC area is usually more than 2x Boston proper.
On average MA tax rate is 1.1-1.2% in CT its 2.1-2.2% in NJ its 2.2-2.4%
^This is not at all a secret. There's variation by the town but typically in CT and NJ more urban towns have higher property tax rates to make up for lower property valuation, especially in CT where retail and commercial property isn't as robust as NJ or MA.
MA overall tax burden is much lower than other northeastern urban states. That’s why it’s zapped high earners and corporations from CT. Because aside from the talent concentration it’s a lower tax burden in middle class people and corporations.
The towns you all are talking about have considerably higher property tax than Boston which is on average .77% about 30% of New Haven at 2.33% average. (Hartford is like 2.6%) So while the average Boston home at market rate is nearly 3x as much as new haven it’s taxed at less than 1/3rd the rate. So the big thing is tapping into the city down payment programs (up to 40k) and remember 1/4 of the housing in Boston is income-restricted/subsidized.
CT isn’t so bad income tax as the 80-100k for a married couple is only taxed .55% higher than MA (5.0% vs 5.55%).
At 120k a MA couple is taxed a little over $4000 less than anCT couple. As a single person you're facing $6k less. This is of course assuming you don’t have a property tax. In which case you’ll be shelling out more like 7k-9k more per year in CT. That adds up quickly.
There was a time coming out of the last recession when Boston was a huge bargain and the average home was 330k many were available in 2013 in the mid 200s. Now its a whole different ball game. But otherwise now its a rent situation.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 03-07-2022 at 06:04 PM..
We talk about housing expense- but remember you’ll pay much much more in tax in NJ or CT or NY than MA. Especially NJ and CT where you’ll pay 2x as much in taxes as you do in MA, every year. Forever. Over the course of a 30 year mortgage you’re looking at a 150k difference in tax over 30 years on a 450k home. Let alone after the life of the mortgage. So the cost differential in comparable towns but with the inflated MA price point is made up over the long term but not on the down payment.
Also at 5% flat income tax you will be taxed much less in Massachusetts than in New Jersey or New York and slightly less than Connecticut. New York City will have you with DOUBLE the income tax of Boston (with lower salaries on average).
I’d not be willing to shell out an extra 10k a year in property and income tax to live in NYC over Boston. And that before accounting for the tolls with longer commutes and higher cost of goods? Naw
Even if you rent at 80-90k your looking at a hidden $350/Mo fee in the form of income tax over Boston. That’s the hidden cost of NYC.
Property tax rates(key word) on average in NYC are actually relatively lower than other parts of the state and many parts of the Northeast: https://smartasset.com/taxes/new-yor...tor#wxzzz3WEO0 (Manhattan, 1.925%)
Income tax is higher and only NYC, as well as Yonkers in NY State have a municipal city income tax in NY State. A good source for looking at taxes within each state: https://www.retirementliving.com/taxes-by-state
Yea I had several teachers and other folks I knew from Buffalo, Waterbury, Albany, Outtafield etc.
I have the Boston City median Income at 79k for 2019 (1 year estimate) I’m confident it’s up closer to 84k or something now. But yes 19/hr is pretty standard for an entry level job in the metro. Less if it’s your first job/you’re a teenager/you’ve been fired. You can work at TJ Maxx, Trader Joe’s, a receptionist, or as a budtender and make that much. I know this for a fact.
And, yes, 50k is entry level at a non-profit in Boston- that’s a competing space there. I also know this for fact.
one receptionist and one cashier together is 80k. A teacher alone on average is 95k, a bus driver is 90-95k…
Dishwasher in Somerville at Nu Kitchen is $18-20/hr
Burrito roller at Anna’s taqueria is $18.50/hr
Concierge in Allston starts at $18/hr
Packaging job staring at $20-25/hr
Call center rep starting at $43,000 per year
$25/hr to work night shift at a warehouse
$17/hr for day shift at a ware house
Dunking Donuts crew member, Jamaica Plain $19/hr
Cannabis delivery driver $18-20/hr
Cafe Landover Server $21/hr
Trader Joe’s Crew Member Cambridge $16-20/hr
ALDi crew member $18/hr
Communications and fundraising assistant at Urban Edge Roxbury starts at 45-55k per year. Only requirement is ‘High School Diploma or GED + 1-3 years administrative or social media experience’…
Very very few jobs offering $15/hr or below lowest I’ve seen was 14.25 to work at a local sneaker store (Expressions).
Even Dorchester YMCA is offering Youth Leader jobs starting at $16.25/hr that’s for like 18 year olds.
Simply put if you have two people working jobs like this that’s 80,000 per year at 30% of your pretax income you can afford a 2,000/Mo apartment. That’s assuming you have no side hustle. It’s very doable without being more than 15 miles from Downtown Boston.
Average Boston Public School TEACHER (non-admin) salary is $104,525 last school year. 22.6% of all teachers are black. That’s at least 1000 black teachers.
Since I did it in another thread, here are the Regional Price Parities for Northeastern metro areas with at least 500,000 people(and likely in or very close to being in the top 100 metros in population).
Albany: 100.297
Allentown: 99.124
Boston: 110.218
Bridgeport: 105.586
Buffalo: 95.697
Harrisburg: 96.481
Hartford: 102.882
Lancaster: 98.475
New Haven: 102.462
NYC: 115.475
Philadelphia: 102.254
Pittsburgh: 95.685
Portland ME: 100.291
Poughkeepsie-Newburgh: 111.875 (Does have highest black MHHI in the region and 2nd or 3rd, I believe nationally for top 100 metros)
Providence: 101.236
Reading: 98.025
Rochester: 98.287
Scranton: 93.018
Springfield: 97.943
Syracuse: 96.594
Worcester: 100.613
This is based off of 2020 Bureau of Economic Analysis statistics measuring, All items (RPPs)- The term "all items" refers to all the detailed consumption goods and services used in the estimation of the RPPs.
Based off of...
Goods (RPPs)- Goods refer to durable and nondurable consumption goods used in the estimation of the RPPs. Goods categories include apparel, education, food, housing, medical, recreation, transportation, and other goods.
Housing (RPPs)- Housing expenditures consist of the monetary rents paid by tenants for tenant-occupied housing, an imputed rental value for owner-occupied dwellings (measured as the income the homeowner could have received if the house had been rented to a tenant), the rental value of farm dwellings, and spending on group housing. Housing price levels are only estimated for tenant-occupied housing.
Utilities (RPPs)- Household utilities consist of water supply and sanitation and electricity and gas.
Other (RPPs)- Other services refer to services consumption products, except rents, that are used in the estimation of the RPPs. Other services categories include education, food, housing, medical, recreation, transportation, and other services.
So, from just looking at metros with at least 1 million people Pittsburgh and Buffalo are essentially neck and neck in terms of the lowest cost of living, with Rochester coming in 3rd.
For areas in between 500k-1 million the 3 lowest are Scranton, with Harrisburg and Syracuse coming in really tight for 2nd and 3rd.
I dare say that Buffalo could be a sleeper due to also having access to an area that would essentially be a rough equivalent to the Chicago metro area/CSA across an International border from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horseshoe
Meaning, it gives families(or professionals) more options to consider at least on the weekends. For families, I'm thinking of places like these here: https://www.marineland.ca/
So, that is an area in the region that has plenty of options nearby just outside of the region(and country).
In terms of the cities/areas in this list, are there any others that have housing programs that allow for families to get into relatively affordable housing?
As you can see, the 3 lowest are Utica-Rome(in between Syracuse and Albany); Erie PA in the far NW corner of the state and Binghamton NY(just north of the PA border about an hour or so south of Syracuse).
Not sure about Erie, but in terms of the other 2 when considering schools(inc. demographics), etc., I'd say outer neighborhoods of Utica(particularly North and South Utica) and getting into the Utica Academy of Science Charter School or particular programs at the public HS(Proctor) for Utica-Rome area(some may do Rome City SD or Notre Dame schools as well). https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.ph...d=800000075839
For the Binghamton area, nicer parts of Binghamton(West Side south of Main Street, East Side and western 2/3rds of the South Side) and programs at Binghamton HS(like its Arts and IB programs); with possible consideration for nicer parts of Endicott and Johnson City(depending on who you inc. demographically): https://data.nysed.gov/enrollment.ph...d=800000054903
(Some may consider Seton schools or Vestal as well)
On a side note, all 3 of the South Jersey metros on this list are in the 15-20% black range and aren't too far from the Philadelphia area at all.
Something to possibly consider with the York and East Stroudsburg areas is that they aren't too far from major metros in other states. York is just under an hour from Baltimore and is only about 40 minutes from outer northern suburbs of Baltimore.
East Stroudsburg, while pretty close to Philadelphia(about an hour and 40 minutes or so), it is actually closer to NYC(an hour and a half) and is quite close to outer NYC suburbs in northern NJ(30 minutes or so).
East Stroudsburg as a metro is essentially 15% black(14.8%).
Isn’t it becoming more expensive and dealing with gentrification too? Plus, it isn’t in the region, which is the point of thread.
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