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Lower Merion Township, Montgomery County: 5.2% Black, MHI $136,288 59k
Haverford Township, Delaware County: 3.1% Black, MHI $111,287 )49k
Radnor Township, Delaware County: 4.9% Black, MHI $127,161 31k
Tredyffrin Township, Chester County: 3.1% Black, MHI $136,429) 29k
Abington Township, Montgomery County: 11.1% Black, MHI $94,863 55k
Cheltenham Township, Montgomery County: 34.6% Black, MHI $85,217
37k
Springfield Township, Montgomery County: 10.4% Black, MHI $104,417 19k
Media Borough, Delaware County seat: 6.1% Black, MHI $77,708 5k
West Chester Borough, Chester County seat: 7.9% Black, MHI $61,837*
20k
West Goshen Township, Chester County: 3.2% Black, MHI $101,452* 23k
East Bradford Township, Chester County: 4.5% Black, MHI $129,452* 10k
West Whiteland Township, Chester County: 4.8% Black, MHI $114,837*19k
Westtown Township, Chester County: 2.5% Black, MHI $119,177* 11k
Thornbury Township, Delaware County: 7.5% Black, MHI $163,047* 8k
MEL you listed 13 towns with a population of 3%+ black that were on average 8.8% black and had an average MHI of $110,000. 364k people or 26.7k per township.
32,300 black people of the 1,220,000 black people in the region. 2.6% living in high-income towns Cmon. This is a total JOKE guys.. Why bother?
I listed 17 towns with a population of 3%+ black that were on average 8.9% Black and had an average MHI of $117,000. 749k people or 44k per town.
67k black people out of 389k in the area. 17.2% living in high-income towns. I really could list Boston as its income matches the statewide median income and it higher than some suburban town you have on here (unlike Philly) but I wont
...
Want to debate further? Please just admit you're arguing off legacy and perception and not reality and fact and call it a day. This is not even remotely close.
I didn't note that you had also posted population figures; my bad.
But is a difference of $7k in average MHI really a blowout? Or 10 towns/boroughs (in Pennsylvania) vs. 17 towns/cities (in Massachusetts)? (I didn't look at every suburban municipality; I focused on the Main Line out to Paoli, the suburban county seats, some suburbs I knew had a non-trivial Black population percentage and the municipalities in the West Chester Area School District. I probably missed some suburban municipalities that had at least a 3% Black population.)
No doubt the Black presence in Boston is greater than it was when I moved from there to here 37 years ago. But I still wouldn't characterize this region as either one that's in decline or one that's not desirable for middle- and upper-middle-class Blacks.
As far as housing affordability is concerned, I don't think that the markets have changed that much since 2018, but it does seem to me based on what I know about housing prices that a family bringing in $41k a year here will be able to find acceptable housing in acceptable neighborhoods; the NAR's Housing Affordability Index that year was 206.4 for Philadelphia and 116.6 for Boston, making Philly significantly more affordable than Boston: given that the area median income for the Philadelphia area ($74,533) is high enough to have twice the money needed to buy the median-priced house (for a single-family home, that's $246,200 as of 2019), the household earning either the city median income ($46,116) or even $41k per year should be able to find a home they can afford in a decent neighborhood.
I think many people do get that, which is a point in Philadelphia's favor.
May drop Rochester information later, but much of it is similar and the 2 cities are only an hour away. Syracuse is a little over 2 hours away from Buffalo to the east.
So, you can have kids that live in the city, but go to school in a suburban SD through this program.
In terms of suburbs, the area's western suburban SD's like Gates-Chili, Greece, Rush-Henrietta, West Irondequoit, East Irondequoit, Churchville-Chili, Wheatland-Chili and to a lesser degree Spencerport and Brockport tend to have more black residents. you do have some in eastern suburban SD's like Penfield, Webster and Fairport in visible amounts. Some are in very affluent and arguably Upstate NY's best SD Pittsford and some are out in growing Victor in Ontario County.
It is also an area with rural/small towns with decent and consistent black populations in Wayne County towns such as Sodus, Lyons and even Newark, Clyde and Williamson. Same for Orleans County in terms of mainly Albion and Medina. Geneva in Ontario County is a small "city" also with a substantial black population. A solid soul food restaurant there: https://www.facebook.com/RedmansChickennRibs/ (owner's brother played Basketball at Boston College back in the 1980's in the real Big East: http://www.genevasportshof.org/bio.p...Scott%20Tyrone).
As for Rochester, black mayor, police chief, fire chief, etc. So, again the leadership is there and the city is about 41% black.
I didn't note that you had also posted population figures; my bad.
But is a difference of $7k in average MHI really a blowout? Or 10 towns/boroughs (in Pennsylvania) vs. 17 towns/cities (in Massachusetts)? (I didn't look at every suburban municipality; I focused on the Main Line out to Paoli, the suburban county seats, some suburbs I knew had a non-trivial Black population percentage and the municipalities in the West Chester Area School District. I probably missed some suburban municipalities that had at least a 3% Black population.)
No doubt the Black presence in Boston is greater than it was when I moved from there to here 37 years ago. But I still wouldn't characterize this region as either one that's in decline or one that's not desirable for middle- and upper-middle-class Blacks.
As far as housing affordability is concerned, I don't think that the markets have changed that much since 2018, but it does seem to me based on what I know about housing prices that a family bringing in $41k a year here will be able to find acceptable housing in acceptable neighborhoods; the NAR's Housing Affordability Index that year was 206.4 for Philadelphia and 116.6 for Boston, making Philly significantly more affordable than Boston: given that the area median income for the Philadelphia area ($74,533) is high enough to have twice the money needed to buy the median-priced house (for a single-family home, that's $246,200 as of 2019), the household earning either the city median income ($46,116) or even $41k per year should be able to find a home they can afford in a decent neighborhood.
I think many people do get that, which is a point in Philadelphia's favor.
The blow out is that black peoples are 8x more likely to live in one or these close in middle to upper middle class burbs in Boston than in Philly 17% of Boston MSA black population versus 2% for Philly. I missed plenty 3% black towns with incomes over 75k in MA and we omitted suburban NJ. I also left off the very desirable cities of Malden(18% black, 65k) Holbrook( 17% black, 75k) and Everett(19% black, median income 63k) which are home to another 20k black peoples nearly all lower middle or middle class. Living in condos within 2 family holiness (Malden and Everett) or ranches (Holbroook).
Boston may be unaffordable but black poverty rates in the city of Boston are below national averages.. let alone the burbs. Prices in many towns with higher black populations are more $300-450k. It’s not San Francisco. People in the market to buy in Boston make wavy more than 58k... The region attracts skilled middle class black immigrants and a smaller number is successful black American professionals.
What are black homeownership rates in each metro? Philadelphia and PA have higher homeownership rates than Boston and MA in general. That’s dueto the rowhomes and property values across the board. erican professionals. Add the collegiate vibe and Oceanside location and I think it’s a slam dunk.
Now Philly as a preference I get it but it’s another situation where we’re looking at a tiny slice of the black populations.
Of the towns you listed there are 32k black people, there’s at least 160k living below poverty in Philly.
Of the towns I listed there are 67k, and only 34k black people in poverty in Boston.
That’s not good to me.
I had a similar argument about Detroit but I think Philly is wayyyyy better than Detroit but ultimately I see Philly only winning 2 of the categories that were actually listed initially. Everyone ignored that and just voted based off gut feeling: most have probably not been to all these cities. .
You excluded the best answer! But I believe Philadelphia would work. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I felt that the areas around Media, Swarthmore, Germantown, etc. were particularly comfortable and had some of the more progressive black families there. Boston isn't the answer imho.
Be more specific because Philadelphia is a very high crime city and filled with grit that a middle class family would not like. But I will say my aunt left NYC back in the 90s and moved to Philly. Looking at the area she lives in now I would say it has a good amount of middle class black folks but the area is iffy iffy with the crime situation.
I’m an opportunistic person so my answer is Jersey City. NYC, Boston, Prov. Low crime areas all located in major hubs. More white collar jobs and opportunities in general.
My answer also comes from my ideology that there is not realistic city that is good for blacks people even thought a lot of my fellow blacks people like to push this myth on certain locations.
Not sure what Philly does better than NYC or Boston besides be affordable. It seems to due what NYC does less well and what Boston does but less well. It is blacker though..
Ithink we still need clarification on income and city v suburbs.
Usually when threads like this pop up the most affordable city will win and that seems to be with a lot of threads that pop up about black folks.
So, you can have kids that live in the city, but go to school in a suburban SD through this program.
In terms of suburbs, the area's western suburban SD's like Gates-Chili, Greece, Rush-Henrietta, West Irondequoit, East Irondequoit, Churchville-Chili, Wheatland-Chili and to a lesser degree Spencerport and Brockport tend to have more black residents. you do have some in eastern suburban SD's like Penfield, Webster and Fairport in visible amounts. Some are in very affluent and arguably Upstate NY's best SD Pittsford and some are out in growing Victor in Ontario County.
It is also an area with rural/small towns with decent and consistent black populations in Wayne County towns such as Sodus, Lyons and even Newark, Clyde and Williamson. Same for Orleans County in terms of mainly Albion and Medina. Geneva in Ontario County is a small "city" also with a substantial black population. A solid soul food restaurant there: https://www.facebook.com/RedmansChickennRibs/ (owner's brother played Basketball at Boston College back in the 1980's in the real Big East: http://www.genevasportshof.org/bio.p...Scott%20Tyrone).
As for Rochester, black mayor, police chief, fire chief, etc. So, again the leadership is there and the city is about 41% black.
Can check out information about suburban SD’s mentioned above here: https://data.nysed.gov/profile.php?county=26 (Brighton is another highly regarded SD that is a little more diverse as well)
In terms of neighborhoods and as mentioned in the Rochester v. Cleveland thread, Corn Hill is a historic neighborhood that has had a long time black population and is just SW of Downtown: https://rocwiki.org/Corn_Hill
In the popular SE Quadrant, Upper Monroe and the portion of South Wedge by Mount Hope Cemetery/the Highland Park neighborhood/Highland Hospital and perhaps Swillburg(band leader Cab Calloway lived there the first 11 years of his life from 1907-1918 on Sycamore Street) are solid walkable areas that are more family friendly and has a decent black resident presence. South Wedge: https://goo.gl/maps/GQJKf72YLSxxwqUd9
In terms of Buffalo, it also has beaches in the area on both area Great Lakes(Erie and Ontario). Canalside is a nice, newer park: https://buffalowaterfront.com/canalside
I’m an opportunistic person so my answer is Jersey City. NYC, Boston, Prov. Low crime areas all located in major hubs. More white collar jobs and opportunities in general.
My answer also comes from my ideology that there is not realistic city that is good for blacks people even thought a lot of my fellow blacks people like to push this myth on certain locations.
Prov is decent if your willing to make long drives, because you really do need Boston to do the more corporate and traditional career paths. The economy in Rhode Island is weak by any conventional measure, but improving. good Mayor of Providence and a good Governor.
Providence is a gem in that it’s actually affordable (pre void) so you can live an unorthodox lifestyle with relative ease.
The state is lowkey and its main export is culture and arts (Newport, historical Jewelery capital-Alex and Ani is just the most recent iteration), RISD, Brown University). Very “ethnic” and an LGBTQ hub. So you have this culture that exists within the small immediate Providence area. Providence is seriously considering giving reparation to black and Afro-Latino residents. But it’s too small and confining geographically and numerically.
It’s extremely safe but you might have to use those housing savings to enroll in one of the many private schools, or dabble in the Pawtucket Black Lives Matter charter school. Really strong healthcare system and amazing food. Superb beaches are no more than 40 minutes from anyone’s house. Plus there’s really quick, cheap, access to Martha’s Vineyard, Newport, New York City and the Cape.
The blow out is that black peoples are 8x more likely to live in one or these close in middle to upper middle class burbs in Boston than in Philly 17% of Boston MSA black population versus 2% for Philly. I missed plenty 3% black towns with incomes over 75k in MA and we omitted suburban NJ. I also left off the very desirable cities of Malden(18% black, 65k) Holbrook( 17% black, 75k) and Everett(19% black, median income 63k) which are home to another 20k black peoples nearly all lower middle or middle class. Living in condos within 2 family holiness (Malden and Everett) or ranches (Holbroook).
With all due respect, I've never heard anyone refer to Malden or Everett as particularly desirable. Both have a pretty gritty/working-class vibe for which you were so dismissive of analogues in the Philly area.
But aside from that, as I point out before, you're drawing a logical fallacy. The fact that blacks live in affluent towns does not mean that they are affluent themselves. That's precisely why you have to single out household incomes AMONG blacks alone. Otherwise, the comparison is meaningless. That's to say nothing of the fact that COL differences are significant between both regions.
Again, the only meaningful comparison we can draw is an approximately 41K household income for blacks in metro Philly versus 58K in the Boston area, which puts them at relative parity when adjusted.
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