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Some (occasionally personal but always) impressionistic comments on the Philadelphia-area communities you sampled here:
Coatesville is the only city (as opposed to borough or township) in Chester County — it's an old steel town that has seen better days, but as the view of its downtown you chose shows, it looks neither rundown nor beat-up. A friend of mine drives a bus on a Rover bus route (local Chester County bus service) that runs through downtown Coatesville.
I've never seen South Coatesville before. Some interesting contrasts between the boulevard you picked and some other nearby streets.
Coatesville was also the site of an infamous lynching of a Black steelworker in 1911. In the "Red Summer" of 1919, Black Coatesvillians took up arms in order to prevent another rumored lynching (the rumor turned out to be false).
Drexel Hill (ZIP code 19026) is the toniest community in the state's largest township, generally middle-middle/lower-middle-class Upper Darby, but oddly enough, your street view picks missed Drexel Hill's toniest section. UD outdoes Cheltenham by a nose on the racial/ethnic diversity scale, and its high school — there's only one public high school in the 82,000-person township — ditto. The school district, however, is lower-ranked than Cheltenham's (which I don't hold against it), and Upper Darby is known for having high property taxes.
Lansdowne is one of the loveliest communities in Delaware County and has a rich stock of grand old turn-of-the-20th-century homes. Its downtown has a historic theater that is being restored, slowly but surely, and the borough recently voted to drop its ban on liquor by the drink in hopes of stimulating a restaurant scene in the downtown. Everyone I've ever talked to who lives or has lived in Lansdowne loves it, but families tend to avoid it because of the reputation of its school district: the William Penn School District, which Lansdowne shares with Black middle-class Yeadon (also in the ZIP code, as one of your picks shows) and poorer Darby Borough, Darby Township and Colwyn Borough, is the second-lowest-ranked school district in the county, ahead of only troubled Chester-Upland. But Lansdowne teens can at least walk to its high school. (I don't know whether East Lansdowne students are also in the William Penn district or the Upper Darby district; UD surrounds East Lansdowne, and a thin strip of UD separates East Lansdowne (Fernwood and Pembroke) from Lansdowne.
Before the highways and the malls ate away its business, Central Germantown was the second-busiest shopping district in the city after Center City itself; the building with the Walgreens in the second view you picked housed the C.A. Rowell department store, Germantown's ritziest; the Library of Congress' Gottscho-Schleisner Collection includes a bunch of photographs the architectural photography company took of the store after it enlarged and remodeled itself in 1950. Central Germantown had two homegrown department stores (this one and George Allen Inc., one block to the west on Chelten; Allen's 1927 building now houses the downsized and relocated Walgreens on its street floor) and two chains (Sears and JCPenney; Penney's was still in business when I moved here in 1983, but all the other stores had closed by then).
The first of your views lies two blocks south of the second one. It's sandwiched between two great local coffee shops, the Germantown Espresso Bar on Maplewood Mall (one block south of Germantown and Chelten) and Uncle Bobbie's Coffee and Books, Marc Lamont Hill's dope coffee house/bookstore at the south edge of Market Square, Germantown's historic town center. (Here's what I wrote about the place when it opened in November 2017.) Both survived the pandemic and are returning to full service. The atmosphere is cooler at UB's, but they're more serious about the coffee at the Espresso Bar. Both businesses regard each other as complementary and contributing to Germantown's slow revival.
You might want to consider finding a street north of Chelten Avenue and west of Germantown Avenue (5900 block or above) to include. The west sides of the three neighborhoods that comprised colonial Germantown Township — Germantown (19144), Mount Airy (19119) and Chestnut Hill (19118) — are all more affluent than their east sides, though your block of East Washington Lane in the northeast quadrant is pretty nice too.
East Falls is a little more diverse than outsiders think it is and a good bit more affluent than either the city as a whole or than outsiders think it is. But most Philadelphians know that the neighborhood is, or was, home to several notables: oarsman Jack Kelly, father of Princess Grace of Monaco; Mayor, and later Governor, Ed Rendell, the first Philadelphian to serve as Governor of Pennsylvania since 1913; and U.S. Senator Arlen Spector, who shares hometowns with the late U.S. Senator Bob Dole (R-Kan.): Russell, Kan. (Spector being Jewish, I think that says something about western Kansas.) My landlord lives in a handsome turn-of-the-century Colonial Revival home right next to the rear entrance to William Penn Charter School (a private Quaker school dating to 1689) in East Falls' tonier north side. It's neither as busy nor as precious as Chestnut Hill, which recommends it to some affluent families.
Ridge Avenue is an attractive commercial district, and Roxborough is certainly affluent and well-educated, but it's only 14 percent Black, so I'm not quite sure what this is doing on this list.
Philadelphia's second-wealthiest neighborhood after Society Hill, or third-wealthiest after that and Rittenhouse Square. Its business district along Germantown Avenue is the dining destination for all of Northwest Philly above the Wissahickon. As such, it draws an eclectic clientele that makes Chestnut Hill look Blacker than it is, but it has a respectable percentage of Blacks residing there.
More later....
Zip code 19144 was my old stomping grounds aka Germantown.
Nah not in western Rhode island at all nor in Southern Rhode Island outside of Newport and Middletown. You basically only find them in Eastern Providence County and then in Newport. Much of the state is literally 1% black or less. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/08/...w-census-data/
But yea the Afro-Latinos make the numbers much more visible (9.1%) Odd are you were seeing a lot of Black Hispanics. BTW you'll also find black people in Woonsocket RI and Raynham MA. In certain neighborhoods and store syou can find a lot of black people (I'm talking about you Walmart in Attleboro MA)
Yeah, like when you get to say Westerly, East Greenwich, etc. it is lower, but you still see some black folks around the beach towns. Likely visitors, but some are there.
^Theres always 'that guy' The one who tells us Boston has a reputation as though no one knows that. Talking about the reality on the ground in 2021...not what "people used to refer to it as"
You think all the black people in Boston are just walking around uncomfortable? Been there 300+ years..Hundred of thousands of black people. many black organizations founded and sustained there-yet were all uncomfortable? In what way does that make sense?
There's nothing "south" about Boston in any way, shape or form. Im literally in constant communication with a woman who just moved from Nashville by way of Jackson and she loves it. Met another woman there from Cleveland 2 weekends ago on a visit there, said the same ....and much appreciated Boston over Philly for her kids. You can say I'm lying, but I'm not *shrug*. Real words I've heard from people's mouths.
But for clarification: early on I thought we sort of established it cant be "metro" because several of these places are in the NYC or Philly metro. Or am I misremembering?
It does mention suburbs. So, I think the mention of other places in these areas are useful as well.
As for the rest, I agree. This Boston "uncomfortable" thing, while it has a history, is inflated a bit currently.
Yeah, like when you get to say Westerly, East Greenwich, etc. it is lower, but you still see some black folks around the beach towns. Likely visitors, but some are there.
Yeah no doubt,no doubt. The numbers ar supplemented by people from MA and CT for sure. My social circle thoroughly enjoyed Newport. I know a few folks who would get out on boats in Newport or Maine.
I just saw some close family friends of mine on a boat up in Maine, cool enough they had fleeces on, which is crazy to me. But I gotta admit it did look peaceful and hella beautiful. People definitely do travel to these remote New England getaways, you'll see a few black people on Block Island, up in Gloucester/Newburyport. Or out in the Berkshires (my father had a timeshare, briefly, in Lenox, MA).
I've never been to a vacation spot in CT though to know if we go there, only places I could think of to visit in CT in that way would be Mystic/Old Lyme or maybe Litchfield County?
^Theres always 'that guy' The one who tells us Boston has a reputation as though no one knows that. Talking about the reality on the ground in 2021...not what "people used to refer to it as"
You think all the black people in Boston are just walking around uncomfortable? Been there 300+ years..Hundred of thousands of black people. many black organizations founded and sustained there-yet were all uncomfortable? In what way does that make sense?
There's nothing "south" about Boston in any way, shape or form. Im literally in constant communication with a woman who just moved from Nashville by way of Jackson and she loves it. Met another woman there from Cleveland 2 weekends ago on a visit there, said the same ....and much appreciated Boston over Philly for her kids. You can say I'm lying, but I'm not *shrug*. Real words I've heard from people's mouths.
But for clarification: early on I thought we sort of established it cant be "metro" because several of these places are in the NYC or Philly metro. Or am I misremembering?
There is something "south" about Boston, more so than Philly or NYC or D.C. As I mentioned things are better. The city's population has grown but not really its black citizenry. http://www.bostonplans.org/getattach...d%20to%2080%25.
And its COLD, lol, that's one reason more have moved/returned to the south, plus there are HBCUs in the sunbelt that once existed solely to give black people opportunities for higher education but now are also representative of traditions and prosperity in a more inclusive southern region. Based on what I've read in this forum, many of those in Boston are Caribbean immigrants rather than native born compared to those in the Sun Belt. That's kind of like what we now see with California. Population growth was fueled more by foreign immigration that domestic.
Last, look the ratio of black residents in metro Boston compared to Philly, D.C. or NYC. Its 7% vs. at least 20% for the other Metros. Even compared to Houston (over 20%) and DFW (over 16%), its low. The 7% puts Boston on par with Austin, TX, a city no one in Texas describes as catering to black folk with its cultural institutions.
Last edited by walker1962; 08-25-2021 at 08:33 AM..
Reason: adding comparative statements.
Yeah no doubt,no doubt. The numbers ar supplemented by people from MA and CT for sure. My social circle thoroughly enjoyed Newport. I know a few folks who would get out on boats in Newport or Maine.
I just saw some close family friends of mine on a boat up in Maine, cool enough they had fleeces on, which is crazy to me. But I gotta admit it did look peaceful and hella beautiful. People definitely do travel to these remote New England getaways, you'll see a few black people on Block Island, up in Gloucester/Newburyport. Or out in the Berkshires (my father had a timeshare, briefly, in Lenox, MA).
I've never been to a vacation spot in CT though to know if we go there, only places I could think of to visit in CT in that way would be Mystic/Old Lyme or maybe Litchfield County?
Went both of the bolded places as well and I agree. I personally think that Block Island is a sleeper, as it doesn't get as much press as Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket, but it has a nice beach and the village there is quaint. Nice ferry ride from/back to Narragansett as well. I don't know if I should mention this, but a lady driving a taxi there said to come in the Fall, as it isn't as crowded and the water is warmer.
Mystic has a nice aquarium and the actual village is a nice, walkable community.
Providence is safe on paper but the hood culture s pervasive, things like loud music, dirtbikes and street fights are very common and constant. It has a lot less gang activity than Boston and is sort of more into random street crime.
Its less dense than Boston but the housing is just as old, and most of the neighborhoods are pretty similar. If you wake up in the car in Providence or Boston you cant tell the difference. but it has more poverty in general and more of that old-school racism tinge in the suburbs... However, its a lot more laid back and let -ive than Boston, more artsy and very little upper crust stuffiness of any race. A lot of the more 'ratchet' or street hip hop acts come to Providence because Boston police won't allows them to build up gangs ties and stuff in the city before and after concerts so they just basically get banned from Boston.
There is no notable middle class of black people in Providence..just the working class and the lower middle class. Recently, black people have slowly started to move into the suburbs of Providence, particularly the ones in Massachusetts-those seeing larger gains than the RI suburbs of Providence. Probably because school quality in Rhode Island is the lowest in New England. Prior to the pandemic, Providence was extremely affordable which makes it a landing spot for some semi-professionals from the Boston Area.
In Providence firmly 75-80% of all black people are going to be either Mixed-Race, Cape Verdean, Hispanic, Liberian, Jamaican, or Haitian. So just know that, but I don't think overall numbers are enough where everyone can preserve their independent culture, its a melting pot situation. You're talking about 20,000 African Americans in the whole state out of 1.1 M people. Maybe 10/15,000 in Providence.
One time I was in Providence Place Mall, and I had some Maryland something on and this dude working at TMobile was like yo, where you from in Maryland. he was from PG but had settled in providence after college (he went to Johnson and Wales, Providence). Another time I met a dude at some after-hours spot from Baltimore.
My little brother just moved to Providence and I have two good friends there. Honestly a fun time for a young black man in his 20s for sure. Beautiful women, a high per capita rate of clubs, strip clubs. Affordable, good food, really big mall right downtown with great shopping, and very diverse but definitely predominately Latino. As a city its very progressive and face hostility from many suburban white Rhode islanders.
My mother live in nearby Woonsocket, RI a city of 40,000 that is 60% white, 24% latino, 8 % Black and 8% Other/Mixed. It's an old worn-down city that remains somewhat safe, and has some nice suburban neighborhoods. To town and its a 15-minute highway drive to Providence. Woonsocket-like most soutern New England Mill City's did historically have a few black southern African American families living there but it never became more than 2-3% (much like Central Falls, Rhode Island home of Viola Davis)
The black population is so young there, its not realistic for a black middle-class family. IT basically all about the turn-up and there is not much of an economy in Providence, and what there is goes mostly to white people-but that's scant. It is mostly college-based with some middle-management types, city workers, and the rest work service, education and healthcare. Upwardly mobile black people always will be in Boston or even Worcester nowadays before Providence. Worcester is now blacker (13.7% non-mixed, non-hispanic-29k) than Providence (11.0% non-mixed, non-Hispanic, 22.3k)with a larger and more middle-class black populace. The strong tech economy there and relative affordability have drawn Ghanaians, African Americans, and a few West Indians. Providence has been slowly seeing it black share decline and become more and more Cape Verdean and Liberian. Groups who typically have lower education levels. The lack of high incomes and good school combined with the heavy inner-city vibe of providnece, and suburban ignorance (literally ignorant in compared to more educated Boston burbs) and small size prevent inward Black American migration.
Providence is safe on paper but the hood culture s pervasive, things like loud music, dirtbikes and street fights are very common and constant. It has a lot less gang activity than Boston and is sort of more into random street crime.
Its less dense than Boston but the housing is just as old, and most of the neighborhoods are pretty similar. If you wake up in the car in Providence or Boston you cant tell the difference. but it has more poverty in general and more of that old-school racism tinge in the suburbs... However, its a lot more laid back and let -ive than Boston, more artsy and very little upper crust stuffiness of any race. A lot of the more 'ratchet' or street hip hop acts come to Providence because Boston police won't allows them to build up gangs ties and stuff in the city before and after concerts so they just basically get banned from Boston.
There is no notable middle class of black people in Providence..just the working class and the lower middle class. Recently, black people have slowly started to move into the suburbs of Providence, particularly the ones in Massachusetts-those seeing larger gains than the RI suburbs of Providence. Probably because school quality in Rhode Island is the lowest in New England. Prior to the pandemic, Providence was extremely affordable which makes it a landing spot for some semi-professionals from the Boston Area.
In Providence firmly 75-80% of all black people are going to be either Mixed-Race, Cape Verdean, Hispanic, Liberian, Jamaican, or Haitian. So just know that, but I don't think overall numbers are enough where everyone can preserve their independent culture, its a melting pot situation. You're talking about 20,000 African Americans in the whole state out of 1.1 M people. Maybe 10/15,000 in Providence.
One time I was in Providence Place Mall, and I had some Maryland something on and this dude working at TMobile was like yo, where you from in Maryland. he was from PG but had settled in providence after college (he went to Johnson and Wales, Providence). Another time I met a dude at some after-hours spot from Baltimore.
My little brother just moved to Providence and I have two good friends there. Honestly a fun time for a young black man in his 20s for sure. Beautiful women, a high per capita rate of clubs, strip clubs. Affordable, good food, really big mall right downtown with great shopping, and very diverse but definitely predominately Latino. As a city its very progressive and face hostility from many suburban white Rhode islanders.
My mother live in nearby Woonsocket, RI a city of 40,000 that is 60% white, 24% latino, 8 % Black and 8% Other/Mixed. It's an old worn-down city that remains somewhat safe, and has some nice suburban neighborhoods. To town and its a 15-minute highway drive to Providence. Woonsocket-like most soutern New England Mill City's did historically have a few black southern African American families living there but it never became more than 2-3% (much like Central Falls, Rhode Island home of Viola Davis)
The black population is so young there, its not realistic for a black middle-class family. IT basically all about the turn-up and there is not much of an economy in Providence, and what there is goes mostly to white people-but that's scant. It is mostly college-based with some middle-management types, city workers, and the rest work service, education and healthcare. Upwardly mobile black people always will be in Boston or even Worcester nowadays before Providence. Worcester is now blacker (13.7% non-mixed, non-hispanic-29k) than Providence (11.0% non-mixed, non-Hispanic, 22.3k)with a larger and more middle-class black populace. The strong tech economy there and relative affordability have drawn Ghanaians, African Americans, and a few West Indians. Providence has been slowly seeing it black share decline and become more and more Cape Verdean and Liberian. Groups who typically have lower education levels. The lack of high incomes and good school combined with the heavy inner-city vibe of providnece, and suburban ignorance (literally ignorant in compared to more educated Boston burbs) and small size prevent inward Black American migration.
I don't think there's a Providence equivalent here in the Philadelphia Metro, the way you described it being attractive for single 20 somethings with an active party/nightlife scene. Closest thing I guess would be Wilmington or AC? Because I don't know anyone who moves to Darby, Cheltenham Norristown ect; looking for great nightlife, it's usually families searching for safer place to raise their children rather than single 20 year olds looking to get lit without the police harassing them.
A community center on the city's South Side, which historically is where the black population was concentrated, but has dealt with some gentrification: https://sspride.org/
Income numbers are skewed down likely to the big college presence from Cornell and Ithaca College(, as 32.5% of black residents 25 and older in the county(Tompkins)/metro have at least a Bachelor's degree according to 2019 5 year census data(53.5% of the county/metro of that age range has at least a Bachelor's degree). That means that the black BA percentage is right around the national figure.
As an aside, Ithaca is a city with generally good schools on all levels. So, if you can get in anywhere in the city, you will have good public schools in general. It is relatively pricy for an Interior Northeastern city though. A 2 part special about the housing issue in the city: https://ithacavoice.com/2021/07/the-...s-home-part-1/
There is something "south" about Boston, more so than Philly or NYC or D.C. As I mentioned things are better. The city's population has grown but not really its black citizenry. http://www.bostonplans.org/getattach...d%20to%2080%25.
And its COLD, lol, that's one reason more have moved/returned to the south, plus there are HBCUs in the sunbelt that once existed solely to give black people opportunities for higher education but now are also representative of traditions and prosperity in a more inclusive southern region. Based on what I've read in this forum, many of those in Boston are Caribbean immigrants rather than native-born compared to those in the Sun Belt. That's kind of like what we now see with California. Population growth was fueled more by foreign immigration that domestic.
The black citizenry did grow in Boston every census from 1790-2010 (black alone shrunk by 1000 or so in Boston in 2010, but black including mixed-race grew). It shrunk by 9,000 from 2010-2020 but grew by 40,000 in the suburbs. . Since 1990- objectively- the black- non-immigrant population has grown in the MSA (probably not the city)... just at a very low rate compared to black immigrants and their descendants.
^Not sure why you think Philly or NYC is any different in that regard? They're exactly the same. They are also Cold too...Even DC, Baltimore have seen their Black populations shrink...So why is Boston being singled out?
And honestly, Many of the West Indians in Bostonians began arriving here in the late 19th century (see Louis Farrakhan, Guru, and Malcolm X's family). Cape Verdeans got here even earlier. So its not like they're a brand new group like in California, Columbus or Seattle...Additionally, I don't think that should be seen as a negative; there is a nice balance of black people of different backgrounds, many fi not most of whom are of mixed diasporic origin. That's the direction the black population is headed as a whole. Most of the politicians representing the black community in Boston are African American, as are the leaders of most of our institutions.
And naw, its not like the south; you're trying to say there are not many black people and the black population isn't growing- but that's the opposite of the south... Market St El just quoted street racism in Philly like a few posts up so... they also beat a black man down in Philly at a BLM rally so I don't think Boston has the market cornered on racism.
Boston is New England- its not the South, it's not the Middle-Atlantic.
There's tens of thousands of black people from different states who enjoy being in Boston just fine for a lot of practical reasons. I worked with or lived with more than a few. My people from Detroit and Dayton like it more than those from Miami and Atlanta. But there is also a good amount of Virginians and ex-New Jerseyans in the Boston area, granted a number of them are Jamaican or Haitian.
As for HBCU's my mother went to Spelman but immediately moved back to Boston and never left except for moving to Rhod Island on the MA border -that was for costs. That's by far and away the number one push factor out of Boston, the cost.
Any racism is much much less impactful than the perception of racism by people such as yourself. That may sound 100% crazy- but its 100% true and I think many if not most black Bostonians would agree. Is racism in Boston more grating and on your mind? or is people telling you about racism in Boston more grating? the answer is obvious.
Posters like CGod, MSEl, Stanley888, myself, KodeBlue and edwardsphuzzyhands, 908boi are all black and have been to or lived in Boston and liked it or at least felt comfortable. (Kode Blue ranks it over Atlanta as his second favorite US city) Then there's folks like CleverOne, Aries and perhaps yourself who haven't and dislike it. Thats fine and good everyone has their reasons and deserves their opinion to be respected. But I dont think you can speak for all black people and how comfortable they'll feel. And ainno way Im moving to no damn Harrisburg or Newark before Boston if I had a family and had the choice, lol-im sorry, no.
^Much respect to Newark though!
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