Which Northeast city would be best for a black middle class family? (living, state)
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I don't blame you for your attitude towards Harrisburg, but while I appreciate your giving Newark props (it deserves them), I think you may be selling that city short. Sure, it's smaller and poorer than Boston, but it has very strong bones.
Now if you said like Hillside or Union Harrison or Rossele Park that different story. But thats the NYC MSA..
Which is why I don't really get why we're using suburbs when Newark, JC, and NYC all have the same suburbs. Because even when you tap into Connecticut let's say that was just NYC..those are their own Metros up there. So there just a lotta NJ redundancy, you could make the downstate argument but Newark and JC is not real
IMO same for Philly and Wilmington.. and to a lesser extent Harrisburg.
If were talking 1M+ metros that are undoubtedly in the Northeast, the list should probably be:
Philly 6.1M
Newark ~1.4M (Union+ Essex County)
NYC 17.8 M (Current MSA minus Union+Essex County)
Buffalo/Rochester 2.2M
Southern CT 1.8M (Fairfield + New Haven County)
Hartford/Springfield 1.9M (really more like 1.6 M, I combined the two metros and they recently added Franklin County MA to Springfield..but naw)
Providence may be closer to the core portion of the Pittsburgh metro, as it is a metro of about 1.6 million or so.
I agree in regards to Harrisburg. I think people may underestimate how urban some of the neighborhoods in the city are, it has some things to do and its location a little over an hour of Baltimore may appeal to some people. Some examples of city neighborhoods that could appeal to those that want a more urban environment: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2759...7i16384!8i8192
Never questioned it's beauty from inside the car. It's the people in and especially in the surrounding areas which are turn offs for me. I don't like the feeling of being blue surrounded by a sea of red. Also why I avoid the far Northeast and BucksCo as much as possible. The people and their beliefs and philosophy don't sit well with me as a Black American.
Providence is the core city of its own metropolitan area, separate from Boston. Wilmington DE isn't. That accounts for much of the difference. What you should be comparing Providence to down this way is the Lehigh Valley, which would be the closest parallel to Metro Providence.
I don't blame you for your attitude towards Harrisburg, but while I appreciate your giving Newark props (it deserves them), I think you may be selling that city short. Sure, it's smaller and poorer than Boston, but it has very strong bones.
Were Newark anywhere other than 15 minutes from Manhattan by train, we would be talking about a metropolitan center in its own right.
You're right, I must've been going off of CSA which includes RI.
Never questioned it's beauty from inside the car. It's the people in and especially in the surrounding areas which are turn offs for me. I don't like the feeling of being blue surrounded by a sea of red. Also why I avoid the far Northeast and BucksCo as much as possible. The people and their beliefs and philosophy don't sit well with me as a Black American.
I see what you mean, as PA outside of the cities can get different quickly. I think a part of that is due to the compact nature of Interior Northeastern cities/urban areas, but it also can be a plus in terms of getting anywhere within a short period.
To be fair, it does have suburbs that are quite diverse. So, it isn't necessarily Harrisburg or nothing.
Now if you said like Hillside or Union Harrison or Rossele Park that different story. But thats the NYC MSA..
Which is why I don't really get why we're using suburbs when Newark, JC, and NYC all have the same suburbs. Because even when you tap into Connecticut let's say that was just NYC..those are their own Metros up there. So there just a lotta NJ redundancy, you could make the downstate argument but Newark and JC is not real
IMO same for Philly and Wilmington.. and to a lesser extent Harrisburg.
If were talking 1M+ metros that are undoubtedly in the Northeast, the list should probably be:
Philly 6.1M
Newark ~1.4M (Union+ Essex County)
NYC 17.8 M (Current MSA minus Union+Essex County)
Buffalo/Rochester 2.2M
Southern CT 1.8M (Fairfield + New Haven County)
Hartford/Springfield 1.9M (really more like 1.6 M, I combined the two metros and they recently added Franklin County MA to Springfield..but naw)
Providence 1.6M
Boston 5.8M (I added in Worcester County)
Pittsburgh should be in the conversation as well and has about 2.2-2.3 million people as well.
The other thing is that in the Northeast, CSA's can be the size of metros in the South due to the smaller size of the metros. So, in a sense, just going by the metro in the Northeast can still be constraining when comparing them to metros in say the South, which tend to cover more land area in relation to their population.
Areas like Albany NY or Allentown PA are approaching the 1 million mark and I believe that their CSA's are already over that mark, for instance. Harrisburg as a CSA is also over 1 million people and includes the adjacent York, Lebanon and Gettysburg areas.
Pittsburgh should be in the conversation as well and has about 2.2-2.3 million people as well.
The other thing is that in the Northeast, CSA's can be the size of metros in the South due to the smaller size of the metros. So, in a sense, just going by the metro in the Northeast can still be constraining when comparing them to metros in say the South, which tend to cover more land area in relation to their population. Areas like Albany NY or Allentown PA are approaching the 1 million mark and I believe that their CSA's are already over that mark, for instance.
I only didn't mention Pittsburgh because it seems to be more midwestern to me so not "undeniably Northeast" and it's bad on virtually every metric so I didn't feel like it needed to be added. But yea.
Allentown and Albany arent 1M so that why I didn't include them. And also to be honest, I feel like only you can speak to some of these more obsucre metros lol. So it doesn't add a lot for the general convo. SO just a practical thng.
The thing with Harrisburg is most of it doesn't look like that. Its mostly an urban ghetto with nicer places for what people nearer the water and then conservative whites surrounding the small city. No? I dont know I haven't been.
Or so I've been told by people from PA, and non this forum and through street view.
The thing with Harrisburg is most of it doesn't look like that. Its mostly an urban ghetto with nicer places for what people nearer the water and then conservative whites surrounding the small city. No? I dont know I haven't been.
Or so I've been told by people from PA, and non this forum and through street view.
It has a mix like any other city, give or take. I think sometimes, people from a city can be more "down" on it than people that are new to it or that visit. So, some of it is a matter of perspective.
Pittsburgh is still a Northeastern area. So, it should be included in the conversation given that it is the 4th biggest metro in the region.
I'll let the information above speak to some of the other things.
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