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They were all sourced from the 2019 1-year ACS, so they're considered the most recent.
Also important to point out that MHI is fairly meaningless in this discussion if you're not identifying those numbers specifically for black individuals/families, as opposed to all races.
Hey for the sake of transparency I gotta strike everything I said about Norfolk down. remember MCI-Norfolk/Norfolk State Prison is there. Total rub.
But Norwood is a nice town 4.5x the times of Media 6% black with a median income of 91k.
I do know Norwood to be home to some black private school kids when I was growing up. Like a cheaper Canton. Norfolk and Norwell are definitely different.
Hey for the sake of transparency I gotta strike everything I said about Norfolk down. remember MCI-Norfolk/Norfolk State Prison is there. Total rub.
But Norwood is a nice town 4.5x the times of Media 6% black with a median income of 91k.
I do know Norwood to be home to some black private school kids when I was growing up. Like a cheaper Canton. Norfolk and Norwell are definitely different.
Appreciate the clarification. And to your last post about Philly leading, I guess I don't understand why there's such surprise.
I think all middle-class families, regardless of race, are honestly looking for the same thing--stable/affordable housing, safety, good economic opportunities, solid schools, and plentiful recreational opportunities. Of course, I completely get that persons of color also would like a critical mass of diversity, too.
Places like Boston or New York offer areas like this in spades (with the notable exception of affordable housing) but the deal-breaker for many folks, especially those who have little savings or have no local connections to fall back on, is the exorbitant cost-of-living. It's unfortunate, but "middle class" and Boston and New York have become nearly mutually exclusive. Boston in particular long ago chose the path of becoming a "boutique" city, and it never looked back.
Given that Philadelphia also offers all of the above but at a fraction of the price, how wouldn't it have a competitive advantage?
Appreciate the clarification. And to your last post about Philly leading, I guess I don't understand why there's such surprise.
I think all middle-class families, regardless of race, are honestly looking for the same thing--stable/affordable housing, safety, good economic opportunities, solid schools, and plentiful recreational opportunities. Of course, I completely get that persons of color also would like a critical mass of diversity, too.
Places like Boston or New York offer areas like this in spades, but the deal-breaker for many folks, especially those who have little savings or have no local connections to fall back on, is the exorbitant cost-of-living. It's unfortunate, but "middle class" and Boston and New York have become nearly mutually exclusive. Boston in particular long ago chose the path of becoming a "boutique" city, and it never looked back.
Given that Philadelphia also offers all of the above but at a fraction of the price, how wouldn't it have a competitive advantage?
I mean when I say middle-class aren't we talking about the Middle class for each region? Why would we expect the middle-class income in Philly to be the same as the Middle class in Boston or NYC when the average income is clearly higher in those places. Philly is good bang for the buck but the black population seems to be more burdened with urban issues throughout than Boston's more suburban black population.
Boston and NY are generally above Philly is pretty much everything except affordability/housing so the base of the criteria I don't see it winning. Philly has more black culture than Boston for sure, its a personal preference if the culture, in general, is better. but also Boston and Philly's black culture are just quite different. There may be bias against Caribbean populations in the case of NYC and Bosotn.
I think the large black underclass of Philly and the burbs is a turnoff and part of why its black population barely grows. Esp when compared to Boston. If you're black you're gonna be interacting with those people pretty often.
I guess because I'm mostly familiar with black middle-class people in Boston and NYC it doesn't seem like it doesn't exist to me. And frankly, id considers a lot of Dorchester Mattapan Roxbury urban lower middle class. I mean just look at their appearance and functionality. Despite expense, it hasn't made black population growth stop in Boston at all. You just have to want it.
NYC just seems way more desirable in general and there's some affordability in NNJ and SWCT.
I guess because I'm mostly familiar with black middle-class people in Boston and NYC it doesn't seem like it doesn't exist to me. And frankly, id considers a lot of Dorchester Mattapan Roxbury urban lower middle class. I mean just look at their appearance and functionality. Despite expense, it hasn't made black population growth stop in Boston at all. You just have to want it.
As you've basically alluded to yourself, the black population is far from monolithic, but Philadelphia has the greater breadth to its black culture, from a strong AA history, to immigrant communities from Africa and the Caribbean, to a sizable black Muslim population. That's another factor here, for sure.
And while you speak of the black underclass in Philly, which is a sad remnant of its more heavily industrial days, it certainly exists and is likely larger on a per capita basis than Boston or NYC. But that doesn't or shouldn't overshadow the many middle-class black families that have called Philadelphia and its suburbs home for many years.
Places like Overbrook/Wynnefield, Mt. Airy, Cheltenham, Drexel Hill, etc. have a storied history of black upward mobility that don't receive nearly as much attention as they deserve. Unfortunately, it's usually the worst areas that are called out/top of mind.
As you've basically alluded to yourself, the black population is far from monolithic, but Philadelphia has the greater breadth to its black culture, from a strong AA history, to immigrant communities from Africa and the Caribbean, to a sizable black Muslim population. That's another factor here, for sure.
And while you speak of the black underclass in Philly, it certainly exists and is likely larger in a per capita basis, but that doesn't or shouldn't overshadow the many middle-class black families that have called Philadelphia and its suburbs home for many years.
Places like Overbrook, Mt. Airy, Cheltenham, Drexel Hill, etc. have a storied history of black upward mobility that don't receive nearly as much attention as they deserve. Unfortunately, it's usually the worst areas that are called out/top of mind.
Sure. And that's part of why I am surprised. Same as RedLion.
But I don't think Philadelphia has a greater depth than NYC in black culture. Simply due to scale its also a more variety in NYC.
And then yea i just haven't much liked the look of suburban Philly or suburban parts of Philly outside of the mainline or the inner city. Gridded and often lacking trees. Nasty post-war rowhomes or split levels. I know its not all of it though.
I'm curious about areas of Pittsburgh that may fit some of the criteria. I know a couple of posters could give some insight, but I believe that its parts of its Northside, East End and Westside has a visible black middle class. I believe in terms of its suburbs, Penn Hills, Monroeville, Churchill and Sewickley are some with a visible black middle class. Hopefully, someone will clarify.
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