Which cities will see the largest growth/improvement of their Rail systems? (Subway, Light Rail, Commuter Rail, etc)? (building, NYC)
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Then why do so many less-visited European and Asian metro areas have such great commute mode splits? And why are US cities generally so terrible in comparison? Even NY isn't very high up the global list.
A lot of it comes down to built firm. In terms of revenue miles for rail and bus MARTA is ~80% of what the MBTA does but gets ~30% of its ridership. Why? Because the population of the core ~150 sq miles is about 1/3rd that of Boston, you could plop the NYC subway in Atlanta or the London Underground and it would make limited difference.
See the Cleveland RTA. Population shifts caused ridership to drop by 75% in 40 years with expanded infrastructure
And again the US is and always has been very wealthy. Look at car ownership in East Germany since reunification, people buy cars if they can afford them
Vietnam is a very poor country. The fact that you're using cities from a country whose entire GDP is lower than the state of Kentucky to make US rail look good is telling. I feel like it was implied that I was talking about Asian countries that are similarly developed to the US like Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong, China, etc. Of course I wouldn't expect countries that are much poorer to have the infrastructure of a very wealthy country.
To me a post that states "Asia" is clearly implying Asia. What could that poster do in the future to make that clearer so as to avoid confusion?
Nice try at changing the parameters, but we're talking rail here, not "public transport". And that list is obviously not inclusive of all Asian metropolitan areas greater than 1 million people. Not even close. I think that rail in the US cities listed is clearly better than most asian cities of comparable size. Unless you have information to the contrary, maybe you should think before calling other posters "uneducated". FTR there are currently about 48 countries in Asia. That means that you haven't been to 46 out of 48 of them.
To me a post that states "Asia" is clearly implying Asia. What could that poster do in the future to make that clearer so as to avoid confusion?
I suppose I could have said "cities in developed countries in Asia" rather than "cities in Asia" but I would think most people agree that comparing infrastructure in a country like the US to the infrastructure of a developing country that has a very small fraction of GDP per capita of the US is not useful at all, which is why I said it was implied.
A lot of it comes down to built firm. In terms of revenue miles for rail and bus MARTA is ~80% of what the MBTA does but gets ~30% of its ridership. Why? Because the population of the core ~150 sq miles is about 1/3rd that of Boston, you could plop the NYC subway in Atlanta or the London Underground and it would make limited difference.
See the Cleveland RTA. Population shifts caused ridership to drop by 75% in 40 years with expanded infrastructure
And again the US is and always has been very wealthy. Look at car ownership in East Germany since reunification, people buy cars if they can afford them
When the main portion of Cleveland's rail system was completed in the 1950s and 60s, and even when RTA was formed in 1975 to bail out the biggest 2 transit systems -- CTS (Cleve Transit Sys) and the Shaker Heights Rapid -- the bulk of the metro area's population was inside Cuyahoga County (1.75M at the time), so per Ohio law only Cuy County was subjected to the 1% sales tax. Even just prior to RTA when the balkanized transit system was in financial peril, the rail system transported several times the riders it does today. After RTA was created and CTS bus and (rail) Rapid dropped from 55 cents to 25 and 35 cents, respectively, and Shaker Rapid fares, from 75 to 35 cents (with most importantly, for the first time, free transfers w/ the City lines), ridership became explosive -- beyond the capacity of some services, notably the ancient Shaker system, to handle the excess comfortably. Also, back in those days, although only a few thousand people lived downtown, offices were packed, until the early 80s, Cleveland had the 3rd highest F500 headquarters outside NYC and Chicago. In addition downtown retail, though in decline -- impacted by expanding county freeways, shopping malls and big-box strip shopping -- was still robust; downtown had 3 large department stores and tons of boutique and specialty stores...
... fast forward to today. Sprawl has taken hold and, although Cuyahoga County is still the largest in NEO, it has declined to 1.2M population (while, of course, Cleveland itself is down from around 700K to around 380K); corporations, starting with huge, homegrown Standard Oil, have abandoned and/or been consolidated out of town, leaving Cleveland Clinic and Sherwin-Williams as the big kids on the block. And while its great that Cleveland, for the first time in probably 70+ years has a serious nightlife given that, now, a rapidly-growing population of 20K lives downtown (projected 30K by 2030), with the corporations gone, most apt development has been in adapted reused office buildings.
RTA's tax base has seriously eroded -- and neighboring counties are unwilling to partner with RTA to foot the bill; 35 and 40-year-old trains are falling apart, but transit officials have both been unable and incompetent to fund replacements, ridership continues to plummet. ... and, oh yeah, there was that COVID thing that punched RTA in the gut; just as it did transit systems around the nation -- ironically, RTA fared a tad better than most.
The charge bring defended against is the typical cosmopolitan virtue signal of "America's mass transit is so inferior compared to Europe!"
It's not virtue signaling to point out what is probably an obvious observation to most people that have visited both major US and European cities.
The US has 15 rapid transit systems. The European Union has 34, over twice as many despite its population only being 35% larger.
Berlin is similar in size to Los Angeles. Berlin has 9 rapid transit lines with 175 stations. Los Angeles has 2 rapid transit lines and 4 light rail lines covering 95 stations. You can find similar discrepancies in other US-Europe city pairs.
I'll agree that NYC rail definitely meets European standards. Chicago does too. Maybe a couple other cities. The average American large city does not, imo.
It's not virtue signaling to point out what is probably an obvious observation to most people that have visited both major US and European cities.
The US has 15 rapid transit systems. The European Union has 34, over twice as many despite its population only being 35% larger.
Berlin is similar in size to Los Angeles. Berlin has 9 rapid transit lines with 175 stations. Los Angeles has 2 rapid transit lines and 4 light rail lines covering 95 stations. You can find similar discrepancies in other US-Europe city pairs.
I'll agree that NYC rail definitely meets European standards. Chicago does too. Maybe a couple other cities. The average American large city does not, imo.
Los Angeles has more track with higher average speeds.
If you compare the U.S. to the U.K., even scaled for population difference, I think you'll find the U.S. crushes them with combined LRT/HRT coverage.
Last edited by Losfrisco; 01-09-2022 at 02:29 AM..
I'd love it if Detroit's able to expand the Q-Line into a full-fledged light rail system. I don't know if there are any additional plans for it right now, but as the city continues to gentrify and become more of a "counterculture" destination, that could become more feasible.
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