Philadelphia v. Phoenix (Chicago, NYC, metro, 2014)
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In a way, Phoenix really doesn't have suburbs in the traditional sense, as its urban area is so uniform, with notable "nodes" of density/development in the cities of Phoenix, Scottsdale, and Tempe. That's a much more Western US style of development, which I'm sure you'd be more accustomed to as an Angeleno.
Philadelphia has what you'd refer to as very traditional, Eastern US suburbs, which tend to be far less dense than the urban core, and developed historically because of rail lines. You'll find a slew of village-style towns with tree-lined streets in the inner-suburbs, which transition to more bucolic horse-and-farmstead countryside interspersed with subdivisions.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm actually from the east coast and not too far from Philadelphia. Just not familiar with their suburbs on the whole and certainly not recently. Where I'm from many suburbs grew around rail, but continued growing with the car and blend seamlessly from one to the other. LA suburbs are similar in that many started around rail. Most of those have a little downtown area near the rail station. But they mostly grew after the car and often at the same time so they tend to blend together and look similar.
What I like about Phoenix is more the differences between suburbs than the sameness. I like the college restaurant/entertainment area in Tempe as well as the resort-style living in and around Scottsdale.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm actually from the east coast and not too far from Philadelphia. Just not familiar with their suburbs on the whole and certainly not recently. Where I'm from many suburbs grew around rail, but continued growing with the car and blend seamlessly from one to the other. LA suburbs are similar in that many started around rail. Most of those have a little downtown area near the rail station. But they mostly grew after the car and often at the same time so they tend to blend together and look similar.
What I like about Phoenix is more the differences between suburbs than the sameness. I like the college restaurant/entertainment area in Tempe as well as the resort-style living in and around Scottsdale.
Fair point, and to each their own. Generally you're correct about the lack of intentional planning, at least historically, in suburban areas Back East. But to me that's what makes them so layered with intriguing history, with a more organic "sense of place" compared to the West.
Not to mention, I'll always take lush and verdant over arid and barren, but that's another personal preference.
Fair point, and to each their own. Generally you're correct about the lack of intentional planning, at least historically, in suburban areas Back East. But to me that's what makes them so layered with intriguing history, with a more organic "sense of place" compared to the West.
Not to mention, I'll always take lush and verdant over arid and barren, but that's another personal preference.
I get the part about liking lush and verdant (once I googled "verdant"). That was normal to me too and I still like it. But I've also developed a good appreciation for desert landscapes. I really like the look of property that has no natural irrigation and relies on sparse plants that require little water along with a stone and clay look.
Not sure about the bolded part. I don't think that the entire west is the same, especially the Pacific NW, but more importantly I don't think that I understand what you mean by organic sense of place. I take organic to mean earth or natural or perhaps both. Do you mean that places back east follow a more natural development pattern along natural features (rivers, hills, forests, etc) like a railroad might?
I get the part about liking lush and verdant (once I googled "verdant"). That was normal to me too and I still like it. But I've also developed a good appreciation for desert landscapes. I really like the look of property that has no natural irrigation and relies on sparse plants that require little water along with a stone and clay look.
One of my favorite words! But yeah, I can certainly understand how some folks might really appreciate a desert landscape for its unique attributes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy
Not sure about the bolded part. I don't think that the entire west is the same, especially the Pacific NW, but more importantly I don't think that I understand what you mean by organic sense of place. I take organic to mean earth or natural or perhaps both. Do you mean that places back east follow a more natural development pattern along natural features (rivers, hills, forests, etc) like a railroad might?
It's my jargony way of describing how a town of city grows and modernizes incrementally over time, and wasn't developed all at once, while still preserving much of its history. A clear example would be a comparison of a suburb like Ardmore, PA (https://maps.app.goo.gl/mGGy211xFRnEwNqz5), which has definitely been adapted over the years and continues to maintain modern vibrancy with small-scale business on a human-scaled Main Street, with semi-dense surrounding neighborhoods, to a suburb like Tempe, whose commercial core prioritizes large, uniformly modern development with large roads and corporate retail (https://maps.app.goo.gl/4u1WYW1fYGBxVwsn8).
No value judgement on the differences whatsoever, but I think it sums up how both regions' suburbs are just cut from a very different cloth (also throws out the silly notion that all suburbs are the same).
I prefer warm weather, desert plants, palm trees, and poolside bikinis. So Phoenix.
Phoenix has a ways to go though developing its economy. It's not a bad WFH spot for the Bay Area and I've actually gone there now four times during COVID to work from pool while escaping California lockdowns.
How is it biased? I gave both cities credit where it is due.
The term East Cost Bias is primarily oriented towards teams and journalism but I'd say it carries through in CD forums as well. I can see why the post was perceived as bias, you really give the nod to Philly for the outdoors? What nice beach is Philly located on?
The term East Cost Bias is primarily oriented towards teams and journalism but I'd say it carries through in CD forums as well. I can see why the post was perceived as bias, you really give the nod to Philly for the outdoors? What nice beach is Philly located on?
All subjective opinions are the result of bias. Yours and mine as well. The words preference and bias can be used almost interchangeably. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd expect that most people here would like many things about where they live. Otherwise they would consider moving.
The only time that it's an issue for me is when it's not realistic or based in reality. Some people think that where they live is the best at everything and no place can be. Even then, I just take such opinions for what they're worth.
The term East Cost Bias is primarily oriented towards teams and journalism but I'd say it carries through in CD forums as well. I can see why the post was perceived as bias, you really give the nod to Philly for the outdoors? What nice beach is Philly located on?
I gave credit with each metro where they are due.
In terms of the outdoors, I said if you prefer mountain hiking then the nod goes to Phoenix.
If you prefer beaches, then Philadelphia is a clear winner. The Atlantic Ocean is within the Philadelphia CSA, and a very large part of Philadelphia metro recreation/outdoors culture.
Plus you have the lush and green Pocono Mts. with Lakes and Skiing recreation a short drive north.
I prefer Beaches over the Desert.
With COL, I gave the nod to Phoenix, because overall you can buy a nicer single family home in metro Phoenix with a 500k budget than in Metro Philadelphia. That is a positive to Phoenix. So I am not sure what the argument is there?
No bias. I am giving credit where each city is due, and I said I prefer the Beaches (60 minutes from Center City Philadelphia) over the Desert.
The term East Cost Bias is primarily oriented towards teams and journalism but I'd say it carries through in CD forums as well. I can see why the post was perceived as bias, you really give the nod to Philly for the outdoors? What nice beach is Philly located on?
I'm not sure why that's particularly unreasonable. A lot of people (myself included) just don't care for a desert climate/ecosystem as a place to live. So yes, that would definitely factor into the outdoors.
In terms of the outdoors, I said if you prefer mountain hiking then the nod goes to Phoenix.
If you prefer beaches, then Philadelphia is a clear winner. The Atlantic Ocean is within the Philadelphia CSA, and a very large part of Philadelphia metro recreation/outdoors culture.
Plus you have the lush and green Pocono Mts. with Lakes and Skiing recreation a short drive north.
I prefer Beaches over the Desert.
With COL, I gave the nod to Phoenix, because overall you can buy a nicer single family home in metro Phoenix with a 500k budget than in Metro Philadelphia. That is a positive to Phoenix. So I am not sure what the argument is there?
No bias. I am giving credit where each city is due, and I said I prefer the Beaches (60 minutes from Center City Philadelphia) over the Desert.
Yes, Phoenix doesn't have a beach in it's CSA but you can drive to a few famous options within 3.5-5 hours depending on where you want to go, some of which offer a much longer season than the Northeast. But the sheer variety and enormity of the outdoors access around Phoenix is hard to match. Here are a few examples, some of which are directly in the metro area and all are within 2 hours.
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