Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Towns vs counties being the primary local government structure for one
In addition since the rural north was more industrial (logging, mining, paper mills, shipbuilding) you had many more unions and non-religious community institutions that were lacking in the agricultural south.
This is one of the reasons WV is a weird fit for the South in many peoples eyes
Last edited by btownboss4; 09-04-2022 at 10:29 AM..
Towns vs counties being the primary local government structure for one
In addition since the rural north was more industrial (logging, mining, paper mills, shipbuilding) you had many more unions and non-religious community institutions that were lacking in the agricultural south.
This is one of the reasons WV is a weird fit for the South in many peoples eyes
The structure of local government within a state does not make the culture of a state more "close-knit" than that of another. The culture of New Englanders may be described as "close-knit" only if you are a member of the same ethnic group. For the better part of a century, the Irish, Italians, Portuguese, French-Canadians, Polish, etc. mostly stuck to their own, as did the Yankees (who ran the show). Before 1970, there wasn't much "cross-pollination" between the different ethnic groups in the New England region, especially in Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. For example, French-Canadian immigrants didn't rely on Italian immigrants (and vice versa) because they didn't live in the same neighborhoods, didn't attend the same churches, didn't send their children to the same schools and usually worked different types of jobs.
If anything, the South is home to closer-knit communities because people across a very large geographic area generally have more in common with each other, especially in terms of heritage, religion, ethnicity, political ideologies, etc. While immigrants from Canada and Europe were pouring into the North beginning in the mid-nineteenth century, the population of the South remained fairly homogenous. Also, to deny or overlook the role that small country churches have played in the development and maintenance of communities across the South is disingenuous at best.
The structure of local government within a state does not make the culture of a state more "close-knit" than that of another. The culture of New Englanders may be described as "close-knit" only if you are a member of the same ethnic group. For the better part of a century, the Irish, Italians, Portuguese, French-Canadians, Polish, etc. mostly stuck to their own, as did the Yankees (who ran the show). Before 1970, there wasn't much "cross-pollination" between the different ethnic groups in the New England region, especially in Connecticut, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. For example, French-Canadian immigrants didn't rely on Italian immigrants (and vice versa) because they didn't live in the same neighborhoods, didn't attend the same churches, didn't send their children to the same schools and usually worked different types of jobs.
If anything, the South is home to closer-knit communities because people across a very large geographic area generally have more in common with each other, especially in terms of heritage, religion, ethnicity, political ideologies, etc. While immigrants from Canada and Europe were pouring into the North beginning in the mid-nineteenth century, the population of the South remained fairly homogenous. Also, to deny or overlook the role that small country churches have played in the development and maintenance of communities across the South is disingenuous at best.
The south was an Apartheid state for 300 years. Meanwhile the most treasured tradition for American Jews living in the Northeast, is getting Chinese food.
Even today You can literally look at someone and tell who they voted for in Alabama and be correct 90% of the time .
I’m not dismissing church as a community institution it’s just that the people of Minnesota and New England traditionally also went to church (in fact most New England towns exist because people started their own church because their commute was too long) but were also in Unions at a far higher rate.
One of the issues with this discussion is that, according to polls in years past, the Twin Cities are the least visited major metro by City Data posters and probably by the general public at large. It is far away from most of the rest of the population centers in the country so the result is that a lot of people have no first hand experience with Minnesota and are going on stereotypes, often fed by the Coen Brothers and general Midwestern stereotypes. This is compounded by the fact that old stock Minnesotans tend to have out of date notions of Minnesota themselves, thinking that it is still the land of yah, you betcha. In general the image that people have of Minnesota, or the Twin Cities aren't super accurate, they think that it is less urban, cosmopolitan, diverse and countercultural than it actually is. The don't realize that the Minnesota of the Coen Brothers and Garrison Keillor is quickly fading into the past.
So the question is, is this discussion being had by people who are familiar with all three places? Or are we going on perception? I spent a lot of time in New England growing up in Upstate NY, have lived my adult life in the Twin Cities and have a sibling who lives in Charlottesville so I feel like I know all three places. New England is way more like Minnesota than Virginia in my opinion. The similarities between New England and Virginia I think are superficial ones, like the landscape or how the houses look. The similarities between New England and Minnesota are deeper, like in how the people see the world, the idea that nobody is special, and that the community has an obligation to its people and visa versa.
One of the issues with this discussion is that, according to polls in years past, the Twin Cities are the least visited major metro by City Data posters and probably by the general public at large. It is far away from most of the rest of the population centers in the country so the result is that a lot of people have no first hand experience with Minnesota and are going on stereotypes, often fed by the Coen Brothers and general Midwestern stereotypes. This is compounded by the fact that old stock Minnesotans tend to have out of date notions of Minnesota themselves, thinking that it is still the land of yah, you betcha. In general the image that people have of Minnesota, or the Twin Cities aren't super accurate, they think that it is less urban, cosmopolitan, diverse and countercultural than it actually is. The don't realize that the Minnesota of the Coen Brothers and Garrison Keillor is quickly fading into the past.
So the question is, is this discussion being had by people who are familiar with all three places? Or are we going on perception? I spent a lot of time in New England growing up in Upstate NY, have lived my adult life in the Twin Cities and have a sibling who lives in Charlottesville so I feel like I know all three places. New England is way more like Minnesota than Virginia in my opinion. The similarities between New England and Virginia I think are superficial ones, like the landscape or how the houses look. The similarities between New England and Minnesota are deeper, like in how the people see the world, the idea that nobody is special, and that the community has an obligation to its people and visa versa.
I agree with this. I also think that a lot of New Englanders and Northeasterners in general, do not want to associate with the Midwestern "flyover states". There are east coasters who try to gatekeep "the north" and don't want to be associated with these states despite the similarities.
I agree with this. I also think that a lot of New Englanders and Northeasterners in general, do not want to associate with the Midwestern "flyover states". There are east coasters who try to gatekeep "the north" and don't want to be associated with these states despite the similarities.
By far the strongest force in this thread is educated liberal(ish) people running away from the idea they live in the south. If VA is more like MA than Mn is like MA then VA, MD and DE can’t possibly be southern
By far the strongest force in this thread is educated liberal(ish) people running away from the idea they live in the south. If VA is more like MA than Mn is like MA then VA, MD and DE can’t possibly be southern
Yeah, but to be fair, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Delaware poster on this site feel the need to respond, get worked up, or feel the need to explain any time it’s mentioned with the south, or if people don’t connected them to the north. And they have the best argument of the group to be included. They don’t get worked up about this or seem insecure about it like some DMV posters do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
